Daniel Vitalis on Human Domestication, Technology & Rewilding Humans | Veganism, Carnivore Diet, Nature, AI, Ancient Civilizations & Modern Health Crisis

0:04 This is the Fitness Wisdom podcast.

0:09 I want to thank you for coming on the Fitness Wisdom podcast. It's an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on the show. And you know, I've been following your work for a really long time, since the first time I ever listened to you was on Luke's Stories podcast, actually in back in 2000. And 18, 2019, when I started listening to podcasting in the 1st place. And the reason why I found Luke's story was because I was going down the rabbit hole of trying to heal, help my partner Tina heal from an autoimmune condition.

0:37 And I was diving into the work of Doctor Jack Cruz because I've heard I heard about him and I was searching every single podcast that he was on. And I noticed that Luke story had done like a three-part series. And that was absolutely mind blowing. And you were one of his number one, you know, first guests on his show, which, and it was an absolutely mind blowing conversation. I absolutely loved it. And it is our conversation today is going to be quite similar. So I know you might get fed up talking about the same stuff over and over, but I feel like your message is so important, you know, to bring, to bring to the public and to bring to the world.

1:10 So for people who don't know you, who is Daniel Vitalis? Yeah. Wow. Well, Andreas, thank you for having me here, first of all, and to hold all of your audience here. I really appreciate them taking the time to hear from me today. And yeah, so I'm Daniel Vitalis. I've just made the 60th episode of my TV show Wild Fed, which is the journey of a modern day hunter gatherer going out to hunt, fish, forage wild foods and then bring those back and and prepare them. Before that, I was doing a podcast called Rewild Yourself and, and my primary interest was looking at human beings from the perspective of like a zoologist and an anthropologist and saying, Hey, you know, like, wait a second, if human beings are a type of animal, then what is the human animal need to be healthy and thrive?

2:02 Because I think right now we're in this time where there's a lot of confusion about what we should even be do like what we should even eat for breakfast. It's so funny. It's like we don't even know what to do moment to moment anymore. We've completely forgotten who we are and what we are. And so I became very interested in what are the needs of the human animal. And so I did that podcast for a couple of 100 episodes. Prior to that, I was a public speaker traveling all around North America, so Canada and the US and abroad as well.

2:34 Public speaking, which is one of my favorite things to do. I, I've really love to have an audience of people for 3-4 hours where I can really, you know, present my slideshows and really take them on a journey intellectually. And so I did that for many years as well. I also own a nutritional supplement company called Sir Thrival, and I've had that company for 18 years. And we make really beautiful boutique grade supplements that are really different from the kind of supplements most people are used to it.

2:59 And those are based on natural products that have really powerful effects on us. And so I'm very interested in, for instance, right now as we move into this era of peptide nutrition and, you know, bioidentical hormone replacement, I've made a decision not to do those things. And so I want to, I want to be healthy. I care more about health than the facsimile of health. And that's an important part of who I am. So what I mean is, you know, if we, if we roll a bodybuilder out here, you know, the average person sees that, especially when they're in contest shape.

3:33 You see them and you think, oh, that's a healthy person. Reality is they usually can't move. They're usually not very strong. They usually lack integration. They don't have the rotation necessary for even basic tasks like running their diets usually trash and they're pretty unhealthy. And in fact, a lot of them die right there on stage while they're flexing. And so, but it's the facsimile of health. So it's like if we, we roll out a woman who's got breast implants and boob, you know, she's got her lips done and she's got her, you know, all the facial injections, It's the facsimile of health, but it's not the real thing.

4:09 And so I want the real thing. So I've created a nutrition line around that, a lifestyle around that. I've made TV and podcasted around that for years, and I think probably maybe more than more than most, my message is always reconnecting people to the natural world. And I do that because for two reasons. One reason is because everyone's forgetting and they're turning towards technology, and that technology is making us sicker and crazier, and we all know it. But like a kidnap victim with Stockholm syndrome, we've learned to love the kidnapper.

4:41 And so we always keep turning back to it, you know, even though we know what it's doing to us, it's it's outrageous. And that's addiction at a soul level. I think at like a deeper than just psychological level. It's like a physical, emotional, psychological, sexual and spiritual addiction that we have to these technologies and that so I'm always, you know, that's a big component. And the second is I'm a really spiritual person. And I believe that this reality that we're experiencing right now is a kind of construct, a creation or simulation of some kind.

5:15 My, my, my, my wife hates when I say simulation. She's like, she thinks it takes away from, but I mean it in the way that like there's a creator God, then the creation itself is that matrix that we're in. And it's very easy to be distracted by the bright glittering lights and think this is what's real and important. So we store up our treasures here and we we compromise ourselves to to build our storehouses here, forgetting that this is just a really small blip of your overall souls existence. And so I like to point people to nature because I think when you're in nature, you're acutely aware that humans didn't make it.

5:57 But when you're in the city, everything you see is made by people. It used to be if you were in the city, you could look up at the sky and see something natural. But now you know you can't because you look up and you see a manipulated sky. And so everything is touched by people. Everything's an artifact, everything's domesticated. But the natural world reminds us that there's something way bigger than us. And so my real mission is to not teach people that. It's just to remind them. Well, guys, if you haven't already, smash that subscribe button and the like button.

6:26 Now back to the show. Beautiful message. And this is exactly why you have we have you on the. Show today because you are like a true inspiration and I feel like you are a true definition of what a human should aim to be because you are aiming to reconnect people with the wild world and we where we have come from as wild human beings. And unfortunately, we have domesticated ourselves just like you expressed. And I would definitely love to get into the story of how you think this all came to be like how, how did they all start?

6:56 Like, how did we come to this domestication that we are today? But before we dive into that, though, you recently posted an interesting post on Instagram about these flies that basically eat the eucalyptus leaf and then they they basically shit sugar. I found that absolutely fascinating. Do you want to educate the audience a little bit on that before we start the full year? Well, some people have heard about ants that farm aphids. So there's a species of Ant that basically farms aphids. And the aphids eat the SAP of plants and secrete what we call honeydew, which are the sweet sugar.

7:38 So they, they're eating the nutrients from the SAP and the sugar. You know, think about like somebody who's drinking, you know, you know, soda all day. It's like too much sugar. Your body has to start excreting it, right? And one of the thing about diabetics is that they'll, they'll urinate out sugar, right? And so, so what's happening is something like that and that these aphids can't tolerate all the sugar. So they excrete out the honeydew and then the ants are farming them for the honeydew, which they then eat kind of like how we care for bees.

8:05 Well, there's other insects that produce honeydew as well. And so you're referring to something called lerp sugar. And lerp sugar is created by a insect called a phyllid, and they are on blue gum eucalyptuses, like the ones that you'd find in Australia, but those have been brought to the West Coast of the US. So all over California, when they brought the blue gum eucalyptus, they brought along with it this, you know, parasitic or, you know, maybe synergistic insect. And So what this thing does is it chews into the leaf, pulls those saps in and then secrets out those sugars.

8:38 And then it uses those sugars to create like a little structure, like a little tent that it can kind of be inside of. But they're really easy to brush off the leaves and collect up. And they have the flavor of honeycomb, like a waxy honeycomb. They're really fun. And so I would, I would say the whole world is full of all these incredible foods. But what's happened is, you know, here in the US, the average person, you know, it's hard to get really clear statistics, but it's something like 3035 different species that a person eats in a year.

9:11 So if you think about like the average normie, right, like if you were to just go in their refrigerator, you know, every week for a year and just kind of average out what's in there, there's only a handful of foods. It's shocking. And the reason, let me give you a little context to you probably know this, but if we were looking at hunter gatherers and so people who are living outside the confines of the domesticated and and civilized world, they're eating something like 1000 species a year, maybe even 2000 species a year.

9:41 Let me make sure I define that. So, you know, if we're eating corn, corn is maize, right? If we're eating corn, that's our species. All the corn we eat, even though there's lots of varieties, they're really all one species in the way that there's like lots of species of, I mean, lots of breeds of dogs, but they're all just one thing. They're dogs. And so if we're eating corn, we can turn corn into every one of those cereals in the cereal aisle, and we can turn corn into, you know, every one of those drinks that has corn syrup.

10:13 And we can turn corn into, you know, all these different flowers that gets turned into all of these different chips and crackers and snacks. And you think, oh, I'm eating 65 different things. And you're like, oh, at the end of the day, you're just really just eating corn. So if you go through the average person's diet, it's like, you know, beef, chicken, pork, maybe a seafood. I mean, you're in Cyprus, so hopefully you're getting more seafoods. 100%. Yeah. But, you know, the average person isn't.

10:39 Maybe they have shrimp, that's the most eaten seafood here. Then they're going to have a handful of plants. So they're going to have, you know, corn, obviously wheat, potatoes, right? But there's only something like, you know, a few fruits, bananas, apples, oranges. So at the end of the day, they're getting like 3035 different foods. But the world itself is full of an incalculable number of foods. And it's here's why it's important. It's not just variety, right? It's that there's a genetic component that we are still barely scratching the surface of understanding.

11:13 One thing I think is this is a big answer to your question about Lerp sugar, but I'm just going to keep going. So you if you look at the trajectory of nutritional science, it's pretty obvious that what happens is we think we know everything. Then we learn a new thing, and then we go, oh, we had it wrong, but now we know. This is, this is the biggest problem with the scientific paradigm. The scientific paradigm brings benefits as well. But there's this. Everyone loves to ignore the downsides of these things, right?

11:40 They're just in love with science. This is the cult of scientism. So what happens is there's always the sense that, oh, well, now what we're doing is the right thing. Yeah, I know we were lobotomizing people, you know, 100 years ago. But now we know what we're doing. Trust us. So in the nutritional science, we used to not know about, you know, everybody's used to hearing about like all of these important polyphenols and these, these botanical chemicals that are in plants that help us now. But we didn't know about that 30-40 years ago really.

12:09 And then back then we were big on, oh, you need to get all these vitamins and minerals. But you go back 50 years before then and they don't really understand that. They just thought about calories, right? So the further you go back, you realize like people didn't really understand. Well, what we're learning now is that genetics in the foods we eat actually have an impact on us, especially epigenetically. So how our gene expresses itself is somewhat dependent on the genetics of the food that we eat.

12:35 So if all we eats 35 species, it's kind of like if you know you, your education, you only got access to to 10 books and somebody else has access to 150 books, well, that person's going to have a broader understanding of the world, right? So if you're eating more wild foods, your genome is getting more information than the average person, and that allows for greater gene expression or more dialed in gene expression. Or maybe the better way to say it is that it allows your body to dial into the environment that you live in because those foods have been living in that environment.

13:12 So if all I'm doing is eating apples that come from South America or, you know, meats that come from Singapore, then my body's getting the genetic information of slave species raised in factory settings outside of the environment that I even live in. But the average person today is completely blind to that. That's not on their radar because they're still eating with 1950s level information and science. So warp sugar is just one example of these incredible foods that are all over the place and you don't you just got to go out and and start like learning about and.

13:50 Everybody knows about vitamin C, but have you ever heard about vitamin G? I'm talking about grounding. We know that oxygen is important for our survival, but what if I told you that grounding is just as foundational for our health? Your body is literally a battery and needs to be recharged every single day. Modern life, depleted fatigue, insomnia, brain fog and restlessness. These are like a charge deficiency to me. You see, grounding is not optional, it's foundational. This is why I make sure to get my bare feet on the ground every single day and to ensure that I stay grounded 24/7 like our ancestors did.

14:24 I use my favorite grounding sheet as I sleep to keep me connected to the earth at all times. Check out my favorite grounding mats and sheets that I use on a daily basis by heading over to the description below. And make sure to use the promo code attached to get a massive discount on your entire order. Oh, well, that's what's so fascinating, fascinating about your work and why I love like what you do is that you introduce us to all these things that we didn't even know that existed, which is in our immediate environment.

14:50 And you made me excited after that post because here in Cyprus, we have so many eucalyptus trees. And I'm not sure if it's the same type of eucalyptus tree that we have, but I maybe need to go and search for it. Maybe you can give me some tips on how it looks like or, you know, in the structure of it. But This is why it's so important, I feel like to rewild ourselves, right? Like what you talk about all the time is to reconnect with our immediate environment. What do we have in our immediate environment and reconnect with nature and being nature so we can understand that, wow, like so many things are actually edible.

15:22 Like way, way more than what we actually think. Because this is what you bring to light is that people think that there's only a certain number of foods that you can eat and everything else in nature is toxic. And it's true that many things in nature will kill you, but you need to actually know as well, like how to utilize them and process them, right? And again, it's about having this self-reliance and sustainability because right now we live in a very fragile system where at any moment, you know, if the supermarket closes down, everybody's screwed.

15:50 You know, like no one has any food because no one knows how to hunt and gather and forage foods like you are practicing. And This is why it's so inspirational to see that there is Someone Like You out there who is actually doing this very important work and that you are bringing it to the light. I did want to mention something else as well that I just lost my my train of thought, but maybe it'll come back to me. So can I say something on what you were just saying? Can you hold on to this? I just want to go ahead.

16:16 You said that so many things in nature are toxic, and that's a really great point, but it's also true of the domesticated world we live in. You just know what the things are. So if you sent somebody to go forage under somebody's kitchen sink, I mean, almost everything under there will kill them, right? If they start eating the cleaning products, if they start eating the different like chemicals that we store in our homes, if you went into my garage and started eating, you know, lubricant or paint, like, yeah, those are all toxic, too.

16:45 It's that we have been isolated from the natural world and not educated about it. So it's foreign and scary. We're very comfortable navigating all kinds of toxic things. Like, you know, you never go to the gas station and see somebody put the pump in their mouth and start drinking gasoline because they know that would be poison. They're afraid if they go in the natural world, they're going to poison themselves, and they're around much more dangerous toxins all the time. So a lot of this is education and perspective, but you're right.

17:12 Well, yes, exactly. And this is what I love about your work that, you know, I would have never have known about those flies that are pooping this incredible like nectar, like honey, like sugar, you know, off a tree. And just a quick question about that. Is it what? What does the texture? Feel like you love this idea, huh? The texture is like a honeycomb, so there's like a waxiness to the structure. If I just gave you a spoonful, standby. You have some that's amazing. This is brilliant. I'll show it to you so you can see it.

17:43 I don't know if I can get this jar open. It's sort of rusted shut, so there you can see them and they've got a little crunch. Let me chew them on the mic here. Yeah, that sounds delicious. The flavors like honeycomb. And it's, wow, It's not as waxy as honey. You know if you chew honeycomb it turns to like gum in your mouth. Yes. This breaks down and you can chew and swallow. It all more crystallized, yeah. But you would think if somebody handed it to you, you would think that it was a bee product.

18:12 Wow. And do you know the nutritional value at all on this? I don't. I don't know that I've never actually looked at a chemical breakdown of it, but. That would be fascinating to to. See, my guess is that it's probably pretty high in fructose. Yes, Yeah, honey. Honey is glucose in fructose. Yes, simple monosaccharides compared to what most of us are eating in culture, which is more complex disaccharide sugars, but this tastes pretty simple sugar to me. Wow, Wow, this is inspiring. Like this is so cool.

18:41 I mean, I'm sure the audience is already thinking, I wonder what's available in my environment where I can go and eat some ants or some snails or something that is well, here in Cyprus, they do actually forage and collect snails. They do eat them, you know, as well. So it's it's pretty cool. So I remembered what I was going to tell you, that basically what you were saying back there with the massive variety of foods that we are designed to eat as a human being literally destroys the idea of these very dogmatic diets like the carnivore diet, like veganism, like all these different types of diets.

19:11 It makes you realize that you need to respect and appreciate everything. If nature is providing it for you and it's edible, it's probably OK for you to consume, right? If it's not going to kill you. I feel like it has, even if you can't eat a lot of it, it may have some hormetic benefit, right? So, so it's giving something to your system which is making you more resilient and more strong. But with these dogmatic and restrictive diets, the idea is that everything is going to kill you. And then basically, I remember when I was doing the carnivore diet, when I was transitioning of it, I had a really hard time like eating tomatoes and things like this.

19:45 My body would react very adversely because I was so long without eating a big variety of foods. I was the only eating three types of foods, butter, eggs and meat basically every single day, like for like 3 to 4 come straight. And I started to encounter some health issues because of this. And that actually was the thing that made me transition off of it. And I had some insulin resistance for a period of time due to not eating carbs because my body didn't know how to regulate eating carbohydrates.

20:11 So it was absolutely wild to me. Like made me realize it's so important to everything to eat the rainbow, like literally what they say and just eat what's in season and local and you know, grass fed, organic, all that good stuff. Do you want to add anything to this before we move? Yeah, wow. There's a lot to unpack in that. And you know, I was a vegan for 10 years and a raw food vegan. So I like yourself. I mean, I got pulled. I got pulled into a food cult when I was younger. I'm 40, I'll be 48 this year.

20:43 I started this journey when I was 16 years old. And so I was a vegetarian from when I was 16 till I was about 18. And then I became this really hardcore raw food vegan and I had just be become convinced. I mean, it's a food cult. I understand that now. The it's a bookend on a spectrum. So if you have one end is, you know, like raw food veganism. The other end is the carnivore diet. They're book ends of the same insanity. Yes, traditionally human beings eat anything in their environment that can be rendered edible unless they have a spiritual or religious reason not to, but not because they're they go, Oh, you shouldn't have this or that nutrient.

21:24 That's that's not it. What's most important for your listeners to understand is that when they walk into the supermarket, the foods that are there are not foods you could go into nature and find almost exclusively. Now there are sometimes be foods in the supermarket that are wild foods. So maybe there's a Mediterranean seafood, for instance, that is caught in the wild or something like that. But for the most part, the species that are in our supermarket are domestic varieties, which means that they only were recently created.

21:57 They don't exist in nature. So you don't find lettuces growing wild on a trail when you're out walking. You know, you don't find a broccoli when you're out on a hike. Those foods don't exist in nature. So what it took me a long time to understand, but I eventually did was what's going on is, is we're taking this suite of domesticated. When I say unnatural, don't take it as a negative. I just want to point out they're not found in nature. I don't mean like they're unnatural, so you should never eat them.

22:24 But we take this suite of unnatural foods that have never existed and then we rearrange them into all these different diets and we go, this is the right diet. No, this is the original diet. No, this is what people used to eat. It's like, guys, nobody's eat any of those. They didn't exist before. Now then you get these other kind of silly ideas like so the the idea that I had was, well, once humans must have been natural and therefore all they would have eaten, I they would have just walked around picking fruits.

22:50 Why would you chase around an animal? It's so hard to kill 1. You just wouldn't you just eat the sweet delicious fruits. I didn't understand that all those fruits were so sweet and delicious because they didn't used to exist. It's very rare to find sugary sweet fruits in nature because otherwise they they get consumed very quickly. So it's just we've caused them to become larger and sweeter through selective breeding, domestication. So I thought, well, these foods taste so good, they must be what humans are supposed to eat.

23:18 We must have been in like a Garden of Eden walking around just happy, just doing no work and just eat. I just got convinced of that. The other end of let's talk about the carnivore perspective. They have this idea of of an Ice Age when human beings are walking around and all there is to eat is giant animals like mastodons. And I always laugh at these folks because I go, well, what were the mastodons eating like? They think like there was no plants around. It's like, well, mastodons are made of plants.

23:46 And so if they're, even if it was an Ice Age, if there is large megafauna, that means there's plenty of plants around. And human beings are very good at plant utilization, not just for food, but also for fiber arts, because we need things like cordage and rope, bows and arrows, addle addles, drills, all things for fire making. We need to burn fire. Humans can't live without fire. So all of those things are plant based. So it's like if you're walking around eating mastodons, which are eating plants and then you're making fire, that means there's trees around, there's grasses around, there's Forbes around and people are going to utilize those for foods in addition to eating mastodons.

24:27 So I, you know, so there, what ends up happening is people create these people who have been domesticated for generations who've not really experienced real wild nature, create Disney like cartoonish ideas about what nature must be like. And then they base their diet on that. And that is folly. That's a huge mistake. So we need to be really careful about just making stuff up. When I, I, I was guilty of that. Now I got my world rocked. How I got out of all of that was I read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price.

25:03 Are you familiar with that book? Yes, yes. Yeah, So very powerful when, you know, he was studying Indigenous people and traditional cultures and looking at their diets, and his interest as a dentist was in how is it affecting their dental structure. And it's very powerful, even if you don't read the book to just look at the pictures because you see that within two generations of leaving their hunter gatherer diet or the traditional diet of their people that their teeth stop fitting in their mouth properly.

25:33 So we're in this environment now where when we see people's teeth and their teeth don't fit in their mouth properly, that's almost everybody. We think that's normal. Now, if you went out to the park and you saw a squirrel and their teeth didn't fit in their mouth, you'd be like, what's wrong with that squirrel? Like if you saw like a a lion and it's teeth were like not fitting in its mouth properly, you'd be like, whoa, lions are in trouble. Like, I mean, I'm serious dude. Lions are in trouble. Like it I often say to people, if the health situation that we're experiencing was happening in another species, it would be considered a crisis.

26:08 Like if you found out that the sperm count of panda bears was dropping generation after generation and that testosterone levels were dropping generation after generation and the females were having increased miscarriages and they were all developing cancer and heart disease and cognitive decline and diabetes. We'd be like we need to save the pandas. But we think we're the most important species on Earth, and yet as we are literally degrading and degenerating in front of our own eyes, we just go, oh, you know what we should do?

26:39 Push all the teeth back together and pretend they're fine. So we use braces to do that. Right. So Western price was like, wait a second, teeth are bones have certain nutritional requirements. So if we're getting cavities and our teeth aren't fitting, maybe it has, it's a nutritional thing. And he kind of proved that it was. And that just opened my eyes and I realized, oh, I don't need to imagine what Adam and Eve ate. I need to look at what hunter gatherers were eating and base my diet off of not what they ate because everybody ate what was in their environment.

27:11 So that's another huge mistake, like huge mistake. Well, the Mediterranean diet, I should do that. Well, I live in Maine. You should you do that, you live in Cyprus, do that. But I need to eat a main diet because I live in Maine, you know, And so this thing of like, oh, the people in Okinawa live a long time. We need to import all the foods from Okinawa. No, they live a long time for a variety of reasons. But if the dietary component, which is only one component and a small component, but that component has to do with that, they're eating the freshest, most local, most medicinal foods that are in their environment.

27:46 They are part of the landscape and you want to be part of your landscape. You don't want to be made of water from Fiji and produce from South America and meats from New Zealand. And like your body just becomes like this hodgepodge of stuff from all these different that that all require fuel and shipping and that get degraded through transit and get covered in toxic heavy metal dusts and transport and have degraded genetics. Like all. It's just like, that's insanity, right? What makes sense is you're made of the Mediterranean and unmade of the northeast of the US because that's where we live and that's where the foods are the fresh.

28:24 So we need to kind of restart the whole diet approach. There is no right diet for people. That's absurd because people are regional. I always have this joke with my wife that I want to write like a revolutionary diet book called The Homo Sapiens Diet. And it would be about omnivore, which I joke about that because it's so boring. Because when you say like omnivore, it's like so like milk toast. It's like it's vanilla. It's like, yeah, no, I want something extreme. I want you only eat meat. You only eat plants.

28:56 You have to eat according to this diagram or this pyramid or this. It's like that's no, no, no, no, no, no. So human beings are omnivores. We eat plants, animals, microbes and fungi. That's primarily what we eat. And so it's hard for people to accept what a healthy plate is, but a healthy plate has like some meat, some vegetables, and Oh my gosh, a carbohydrate. And that's really also a challenge for people. So one of the things is like, the reason you know, this, this is everybody knows this. Now the reason we like sweet foods and sugars is because our bodies designed to have a euphoric response to sugar.

29:34 I make Maple syrup. You you ever have Maple syrup out there? Yeah, organic one, it's obviously from Canada, but. It's yeah, you know the food though. Yeah, you know the food. So we have Maple trees here and in the, we just got done the Maple sugar season. And so it's right at the end of winter. So you've like, you know, you've just come through this long, you know, we have like a six month long winter, you know. So we come through the winter and right as the temperature start coming up, but there's still snow on the ground, the SAP starts to run from the roots of the Maple trees up to the crown of the tree because all the buds up there want to start turning into leaves and flowers.

30:10 But to do that, they need sugar. So all year, while the trees been photosynthesizing in the sun, it's been storing sugar down in the roots. So in the spring, when that sugar is being carried up, we tap the trees, the SAP comes out and it's got a dilute amount of sugar. We boil the water off and we're left behind with those sugars. And that's what Maple syrup is. When I taste that, my my brain go lights up because sugar is pretty rare in nature. That's why this lerp sugar is so powerful because it's just immediately sweet.

30:41 You don't have to do anything to it. But that's not common. So I challenge anyone listening to this to go out into not a garden, but actually into the wild world and go find some sugar, go find something sweet tasting. You're probably not going to unless you really know what you're doing, because sugar is such a valuable commodity, commodity in nature. It's the equivalent of if I just started laying currency down on the ground in a city, right? If I start putting coins and dollar bills everywhere, how long is it going to last?

31:11 Everybody's going to snatch it up. You put sugar out there, everything's going to eat it. So nature's very careful with where it puts sugars and it likes to dilute them and keep them low. I bring all that up to say we are designed to seek out carbohydrate. That's why it tastes good. My dog doesn't care about the taste of carbohydrate. It's not designed for that. We are. So when people like you shouldn't eat carbs, it's like, no, you have it wrong. We need to be careful with carbs because now we have so many carbs available to us that because we have a desire to feel that euphoria will overeat carbs to the point that we become obese and start to develop metabolic disease.

31:50 That's not the fault of carbohydrate, that's an over sufficiency problem. It's the same problem that a rich kid has when their parents give them unlimited access to money and they just blow it on all kinds of stupid things because they don't know how to self regulate because they didn't make that money themselves. So similarly, I'm not going to sit there and get fat on my Maple syrup because I know how much work I put into making it and therefore that makes me want to be judicious with how I use it.

32:14 But my point is you don't go anywhere really in the world and find them not eating carbohydrates. Now, maybe if you went to the Arctic, you'll find Inuit people who you're not going to see a lot of carbohydrate on their plate because they only have carbohydrates during the Berry season for a short time during the summer. So they don't have it right. So if you want to find something that looks more like a carnivore diet, you know, go up and live in an igloo. But if you want to go anywhere else in the world where there is carbohydrate, people are going to use it as fuel, you know, and the same kind of stuff can be set of oils as well.

32:45 They, that's the lipid component. But, but, so I, I think people see a balanced plate and they want to find something wrong with it. So let's say you're looking at a plate and it's got a piece of grilled meat and it's got maybe some kind of grain, like a, a rice or a corn or whatever potato or something like that. And then there's like a salad. People want to like find something wrong with it. But that's actually kind of a really balanced meal. And if we ate like that three times a day, you would have your local version of the Mediterranean diet or of the Japanese diet or whatever longevity diet you want.

33:18 But I really recommend people stop listening to diet advice because it's just like the medical advice. It's all, it's always proven wrong. It's always proven wrong. It only takes about 10, 10 years. It's actually the best thing. So as I get closer to 50, I finally have enough life experience to see the pattern. So I got, I fell into this stuff because I wasn't old enough to see the pattern before. So similarly right now, baggy cargo pants with a tight top or popular on girls again, but go back five years and it's super tight pants, right, and baggy tops.

33:52 But then go back 5 or 10 years again and it was baggy cargo pants and tight. You, you know, you need to go like skinny jeans, bell bottom jeans to skinny jeans to bell bottom jeans. It just keeps doing that. It's called fashion. Well, that's what's happening in the nutrition world. Eggs are good, eggs are bad. Eggs are good. Eggs are bad, eggs are good, eggs are bad. No, no, they're the same as they always were. This is this is nutritional fashion advice. And we need to kind of consider that like horoscopes in the newspaper, it's garbage.

34:17 It's like that's not valuable to us. Focus on what actually makes sense and is timeless. Most people chase energy, performance and good cognitive function through stimulants, but that only gets you so far and depletes your system over time as it doesn't address the foundation of cellular energy, which is your mitochondria. One of my favorite tools to boost cellular energy, Mitochondrial function, reduce inflammation, and there's also a potent antioxide that's methylene blue. Methylene blue is a fascinating molecule as it's able to grab onto electrons and donate them anywhere where they are required in the body, making it an awesome antioxidant and restores electron flow in the mitochondria resulting in more cellular energy ATP.

34:55 I love to use methylene blue, especially in times of high stress. It keeps my brain clear and energy sharp so I can perform my best no matter what life throws at me. So if you want to explore the methylene blue that I use, head over to the description below and make sure to use the promo code attached to get nice discount on your entire order. So many great points that you brought up there. One, one part which I wanted to mention where you said about the carbohydrates in the wild being hard to find.

35:20 And if we did find them, you know, I feel like a lot of people forget about this concept of feasting and fasting. So for example, you know, if you did find, let's say, a massive beehive and you were to consume like you, obviously you wouldn't somehow store it. I would assume that you would consume it there and then you would accumulate a ton of, you know, calories in your body. You'd probably gain some fat, which is probably beneficial for your survival. And then that would make you insulin resistant, which would make you live longer until you found the next thing to eat.

35:51 Like so I feel like again, people have lost this nuance, you know, with the feasting and fasting concept. And I feel like because there is food available available to us at all times, every single day, all times of the year, the same foods, even this stuff that's supposed to grow only in the summer is also available in winter. We're so divorced from seasonality and location, like you. Yeah, like you mentioned, like people who live, for example, high up north and they have only have ice and snow, while they're designed to get the really, really cold weather.

36:21 And then their diet is meant meant to support them, you know, with their biology. Because everything goes hand in hand. Everything lives in, you know, symbiosis. So that you talk about this all the time, which I absolutely love. You know, there is this synergy with the environment, and humans are meant to contribute to the environment and nature contributes to the humans. And there is this cycle of life and something which you talk about often is, you know, where are you part of the ecology or are you like, you know, separate from it?

36:48 And then, you know, now it's like human is here. And then there is like just the rest of the natural world. And we think that, oh, let's go into nature instead of, no, I'm part of nature now. I'm just totally divorced from nature. So now do you want to take the audience through a journey through time from wild human to domesticated human? How did this all happen? How did we end up here where we are right now? A. Lot there, want to back up and just cover. I'll start from a place of something you just said and then we'll work through that.

37:18 So amazing. One analogy that I often use for people. Well, I like to point out how many television shows there are about people who are in in the wild and have to survive. That reveals to us that we have a subconscious fear of being cast out into the wild where we don't know how to live. And so we want to watch these shows about people surviving there. Just it's like, it's like a big fear we have because we're surrounded by wildness in cloistered in our little domesticated areas and we're afraid if we go on the trail and we get lost, we don't know how to live on the planet that we're from.

37:54 And that's a powerful indictment of our circumstance. So I'd I have a slide that I like to show people when I do public talks and it's got a picture of an indigenous person hunting. It's got a picture of a backpacker and it's got a picture of an astronaut. And when you look at the hiker, they look much more like an astronaut than they look like an indigenous person. That's because when we go into nature, we think like, I need like 60 lbs of stuff. I could, I could, I need all this equipment because I'm not from this world.

38:25 I'm visiting a foreign world like an astronaut, right. So if we go to Mars or the moon, I don't think we do that. I don't think we'll ever do that and I don't think we probably really did that. But let's say that we could do that, that we could divorce ourselves from our own planet enough to actually go like live like that or something. It's a side side tangent, but if we could do that, you know, you're looking at an environment where you can't survive because it's too harsh for your Physiology, which is perfectly adapted to Earth.

38:54 But people go into nature here thinking like, I got to bring everything because I'm not from nature. I'm from the city, I'm from the town, I'm from civilization, and I'm a foreign visitor. Whereas the indigenous person is part of the environment. As far as how this all happened, I want to just be honest with you. I'm in a transitional period of understanding on this. I had for many years always shared the sort of standard anthropological view, which I can articulate very well, but I don't really believe anymore.

39:27 So, you know, the standard anthropological view is that Homo sapiens, Homo is our genus. So a species has typically two names. It has a genus and a species. So we are Homo, that's the genus. And then our our species is Homo sapiens and the domesticated form will have 1/3 name. So we're like Homo sapiens sapiens. I like to say we're Homo sapiens, domestico fragilis, the fragile domesticated Homo sapiens. But Homo is human. So the anthropological view is that there's been many forms of Homo sapia, of Homo, but only we are the sapiens.

40:07 But there's been, you know, Homo heidelbergensis and Homo Neanderthalus and all these different versions of humans, kind of like a Lord of the Rings scenario where you have like. You know, dwarf humans and you have Hobbit humans and you know, the whole Hobbit thing is funny. I mean, there is actually that was a line of humans, right? The that are these hobbited humans like so, so there's all these different types of humans. I think there's very likely there were some very large humans as well, But but that's a thing that doesn't fit the narrative and so gets isolated out.

40:38 But the standard view today is that we're about 300,000 years old in our modern form, which would mean if you could go back 300,000 years and grab a person from then, you could get them young enough, you could run them through school, they could become a brain surgeon. We're not talking Cavemen who are like we're talking people. The same brains as us have been around a while now. I don't know if I believe that you. One of the things is, is that every couple years the date changes dramatically. So when I started talking about this, we were 200,000 years old.

41:11 Now we're 300,000 years old. And so is something that kind of, it's that science thing I was talking about before where nothing's true until they find evidence for it. So even common sense stuff isn't true because they can't prove it yet, right? So it's like, hey, I feel the vibe between US and they're like, that's not scientific. There's no such thing as a vibe. You're like, you just haven't learned how to measure the vibe yet. I know there's a vibe because I'm experiencing it. You know what I mean?

41:35 It's like one of those types of things. But the standard view is that so it goes like this, you know, 300,000 years ago, all the human beings on the planet are living like wild animals. And at some point around 10,000 years ago, we discover agriculture and we start to plant things and we start to, in particular, plant the seeds of grasses. Now you cannot understate the importance of grasses and human domestication and human, the human story. And that's because the seeds of grasses are what we call grain.

42:08 So if you look around the world, all the civilizations, not all the societies, not all the cultures, all the civilizations, which if you've followed my work, Andreas, you know for sure what I'm talking about. Civilizations are city states. This is where you have like a hierarchy. So you have like a king or an emperor or a president, and then under that you have like a bureaucracy class. And then under that you have like a military and policing class. And under that you have the peasantry who do all the labor that supports the pyramid.

42:37 That is not a natural feature of human living. That's an imposed, you know, like when you look at hunter gatherer societies, one of the beautiful things is the egalitarianism of it so that the chief is a chief in name, but he still has to do work. Like he doesn't just sit around on a throne and get served all day. He hunts and gathers. He participates. Everyone participates because when you hunt and gather, there's not enough surplus food to feed the people who don't work. But once you start planting grasses and you domesticate them, you can produce surplus grain.

43:13 So remember that. We'll come back to that in a moment. So the let's talk about what the different, you know, seeds of grasses are in the Levant or let's say in like the Middle East, wheat. Wheat is a grass. Wheat berries are where we get flour to produce bread and all the confections that we're used to. Barley is another grass. If you go to Asia, rice is a grass. And so it's, you know, the seed of a grass, just like it is with wheat. If you go to Mesoamerica, it's corn or maize, which is a grass.

43:48 You know, it's funny when you think about a field of corn, if you can see an image of that. Those are grass leaves. You can see it once, you know it's a grass. And so all around the world, all the civilizations form themselves around grasses. It's my opinion is why we're so obsessed with our lawns. It has to do with this deep, fundamental sense that grass provides safety for humans. You know, a lot of people think we're obsessed with lawns because of we grew up on the savannahs of Africa. I don't really think that's accurate.

44:20 But once you have these grains and you've domesticated them, you can produce surpluses of them. Now, when you hunt and gather, it's very difficult to get a surplus. There's enough food for everybody, but there's not enough food to give everybody a year off from having to gather. That's just not a thing. You can store up enough to get through a winter, but you can't store up enough to like not have to work anymore and retire. This thing of like billionaires that we're experiencing right now, the tyranny of billionaires not possible amongst hunter gatherers.

44:53 Everybody's equal because everybody's just needs enough food to survive. So if an environment so, so think about like the difference between the Arctic and the equator or the desert of, you know, the southwest or the deserts of Africa, the population of humans is dictated by the amount of food that those landscapes could naturally produce. So if there's enough food for a group of 200 people, you might grow to 225 people, but then some are going to die off. Maybe then you drop back down to 175 and then it comes back up to two O 5 and then it drops down to 195 and it's going to always hover around 200 because people are just made out of the food.

45:33 You know, you just can't make people out of sand with the food there. The amount of food dictates the population of people. Once you start being able to store up silos of grain, now you have enough surplus for the population to swell. And that's what happens in the city state. And those surpluses mean there's enough extra food for a class of people to rule over the food. So you end up with this thing of a class of people who just protect the food from you, but also from rival tribes and groups who might want that food for themselves.

46:06 And so now you end up with this thing that we're living in now, which we all know in our hearts doesn't feel right, where it's like most of us listening to this are probably not billionaires. So we're sort of and we're watching the evaporation in our culture right now of what was called for a long time, the middle class, which was a really cool place to be if you could be there, right? You were like wealthy enough to live well, but poor enough to still have some humility maybe. But now what's happening is that's evaporating.

46:33 And there's this ultra rich class and this ultra poor class in comparison. And we're finding out that that class is predatory upon us as well, right? Which is an old, old story. So it all goes back to there being surpluses of food, which is all based around the domestication of grasses. So the current storyline is around 10,000 years ago, not everywhere in the world, but just in a few pockets in the world. People figured out how to domesticate grasses and they started building city states. And then there's this kind of funny story that will like everybody, they call that, by the way, you've heard these terms, they call it the Neolithic revolution, the new Stone Age revolution, or they'll call it the agricultural revolution.

47:14 And it gives this sense that it started and everybody just was like, oh, this is awesome. And everybody got on board and it was like great. And everybody changed to this. Not true. What happened was a lot more like what happened in North America when Europeans came. So think about Europeans show up in North America and the population here has some agriculture, but they're primarily hunter gatherers. Although they grow corn, they grow some gourds and squashes and they they grow some beans. But primarily they hunt and gather.

47:42 European show up there on the barley diet for 1000 years. There are 1000 years domesticated. And so they show up here and they're like, hey, we have the superior lifeway. We're going to teach you how to jump on board. While those people didn't want that and they fought and fought and fought, but eventually they succumb to disease that they, you know, side tangent, let me make sure I come back to where I just left off. All of these diseases that wipe people out are caused by domesticated animals hunter gatherers have very limited exposure to.

48:12 There isn't time when you kill an animal, harvest it, cook it, eat it. There's not time for viruses in that animal to get exposed to humans, mutate and then jump into humans and then 'cause things like swine flu or, or bird flu or something like that, right? But when you domesticate animals and you keep them as livestock, that's where all these diseases come from that jump into humans, right? So flu viruses and things like that. Well, once Europeans got over to North America, the native people there had no exposure to those, right?

48:44 So huge die off. Then they didn't have these metal tools that the Europeans had, so you had superior technology. My point is they were forced and they're still pockets of resistance. And all over the world there's still pockets of resistance. So when we say the Neolithic revolution, I don't think it's fair to make it sound like everybody wanted this. Actually, most of the world didn't want it and got forced into it and they wanted to live their natural lifeway. So my point is at some point, at some time, different civilized city states.

49:17 Have you ever seen the movie? It's fantastic. Mel Gibson's movie Apocalypto. No. Oh bro, I'm putting that on I. Don't watch really any movies and no, no TV no nothing like no screens podcasting. All right, that's great. But it's a good movie and it's about the Maya at the end of the Mayan civilization. And what was happening was that the city states where you see all those Mayan pyramids, what they were doing was going down and capturing hunter gatherers from the jungle, bringing them to the city states for sacrifice and labor.

49:51 This is what city states have done and they overtime domesticate the population. So if we were to study answer, if we went to school tomorrow and we wanted to study anthropology, we're going to hear a story that 10,000 years ago human beings figured out agriculture just spontaneously. Now this is so stupid to me because every hunter gatherer understands that seeds are where plants come from. It would take you about a week to figure that out. If I just dropped you somewhere and you didn't know that take you about 5 days to figure that out.

50:19 The idea that we, we figured out one day all the seeds grow plants. That's not what happened. That's not what happened, but that's the story that they figured it out. 10,000 after 300,000 years of hunting and gathering, they figured it out and then they started it and then everybody jumped on board and then next thing you know you have iPhones and airplanes and everybody's happy. Don't think that's what happened. And it's been upset by discoveries like Gobekli Tepe, some of the ancient sites that we're starting to find or realizing there's more to the story.

50:49 The story's still very obscure, and I don't want to speculate too much, but I think that what we're going to find is that really how this domestication happened was essentially through enslaved. It's a slave system. It's the thing that just has come out around the world through the Epstein files, which is that there's a class of people who sees other people as a commodity and a product that can be use like livestock. This has been going on forever, and the further you go back, the more openly it goes on.

51:27 Right now, it's a cult. It's hidden. I remember about 10 years ago, I would hear the term human trafficking and I didn't really know what that meant. And I think that's a lot of us, like in the last few years, we've started to get it. Oh, OK. Human trafficking is where you basically have human chattel, human livestock. And that's actually the ancient story is an elite class domesticating another. Now in the process, they've also domesticated themselves. Yes, right. So you spray the skies with, you know, weather modifying particles.

52:02 You're breathing them too. Your kids are breathing them too. You fill the environment with endocrine disrupting plastics. You're using them too. I don't, right? That's an interesting point. And I think when we want to really understand what's going on, that's an important point because it shows that there's like a recklessness. Then we need to ask ourselves why? What is the willingness to do this? Why are they willing to do this? That has to do with cataclysm, I think, and that's another Side Story.

52:28 But basically what I would say is that that while humans have definitely auto domesticated, we've done it to ourselves in a way. For most of us, it's sort of been imposed upon us and ever since we entered into the early 1900s. Let's go back a little bit. Let's say that you're a slave owner in centuries past and and unfortunately when people hear that they think about American slavery and that's just like 1 brand of slave. There's been slavery everywhere in the world. Not to downplay that slavery, but to say slavery is the story of human history.

53:03 If you knew that choosing this sheep and that sheep and breeding them together would yield the kind of sheep you want. Like, for instance, if you want a, a dog that can go down holes and pull out a Groundhog and you know the dogs you have are too big. Well, you're going to go like, hey, let's take our smallest dog and another smallest dog and breed them together. And eventually you keep playing that game and you get the dachshund with that hot dog body and the short little legs and it's designed to go down a hole and pull a rodent out, right?

53:33 You breed things for specific purposes. If you are, you're a king in Mesopotamia, and you've been doing this with your cattle for centuries. Do you think that you wouldn't go like, hey, we need workers here who are strong, Let's breed that guy and that girl. We need hot concubines for the King's harem. Well, what are we going to pick the two ugliest chicks? No. You're going to breed hot dumb women for your harem, right? You're going to breed strapping strong dudes for the workforce. Human domestication is not just something we've done to ourselves, it's something that's been done to us for really long.

54:10 And we need to get our heads straight about that. You know, think about what was going on in America a couple 100 years ago. You know, they were breeding people, not just. And this has been going on all around the world and it's been going on for a long time. So I think that there's a goal explicitly amongst the elites. I mean, you know, you just have to read what they write and listen to what they say. But there is a goal to, you know, what I'm talking about. It's like they say it openly. Actually, they have.

54:38 Right in your face. They have to because they think it's a karma balancing thing. Like you, like Dracula, can't come across your threshold. He needs an invitation. He can't walk into your house. You have to allow the vampire into your house, and once you do, then he can predate upon you. You have to enter into it willfully. So. So they present it to us and then we we hit the yes, I consent all the time whenever it's like new contract available. Do you want to read it? And you're like, no, I'll just say yes, right.

55:06 So we always have consent. And we're entering into a time now where they want to bifurcate the human species into a group of very dumb, easy to control people and very intellectually sophisticated, intelligent people. And they think that's them and they're going to easily rule us. And the goal would ultimately be to replace us, right? But you would need intelligent robots to do that. I don't know where we're going to find those. So I don't know if that could ever happen, but they're getting pretty good at it.

55:42 So domestication is in one way an unfortunate thing we've done to ourselves when you think about humans as a whole. But I think in a bigger way, or in a more specific way, it's a thing that sociopathic bloodlines have done to natural humans for a really long time. I mean, it's, I don't mean to be dark here, but I, I think that if you don't get it by now, you might not ever get it. You know, it's all there for you to see. Now it's just a matter of having the stomach to look at yet. And actually what you realize is it's the whole story of human history.

56:18 And remember, you know how we have that term prehistory, history. It's so funny. Everything's in the language too. So his story, it's not history, it's his story, and his story refers to written documentation. So anything that happens before writing is called prehistory. That's about 6000 years. So everything that happens before that is prehistoric, right? So funny. Just writing, you know, So I mean, human prehistory is that's what this story's about. This been going on a long time. We've only been able to write it down for a little while.

56:57 But when you go back through the earliest writing, you know, that's what you see this about. By the way, the earliest writing that I'm aware of is cuneiform writing in Samaria. That is calculating how much grain surplus there is, you know, which is the foundation of this whole story we're telling. So but then pretty quickly what you get is some real weird stuff that the right early writing is real weird. And in it all, everywhere in the world, it tells the same story about a cataclysm, about a race of beings that came and interbred with humans, about just stuff that's like way too far out for your average normie to even be able to handle.

57:37 But that's actually, and that's why I'm not really buying into the anthropological story. It's almost like a, it's almost like a hypnotic cover for a bigger truth. That is, it's kind of like being offered the red pill or the blue pill of like, do you want to wake up or not? And most people like, I'm going to stay asleep. It's pretty comfortable here. Imagine a tablet that doesn't blast artificial blue light into your eyes, disrupt your sleep, or sabotage your health, but actually use a sunlight to power the display.

58:07 If you've been listening to this podcast, you already know how damaging constant artificial blue light can be on your circadian rhythm, your sleep, and your overall health. That's why I love my Paper 7 tablet by Harborino. It's definitely one of the most interesting devices I've used in a while. The Paper 7 tablet uses something called an RLCD display, which means there is no backlight and essentially no blue light in Instead, it reflects ambient light just like paper. So the brighter your environment, the better the screen looks.

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59:07 For me personally, I like to use it a lot for writing, researching, and preparing for my podcasts. Basically all of my administrative work. And the best part is I can do all of that outdoors in natural light, so I can actually support my biology while I work instead of fighting against it. And because the screen gets brighter in brighter environments, it's incredibly easy on the eyes, even in direct sunlight. I've also noticed that it naturally improves my nighttime habits because indoors, especially at night, the screen isn't overly bright or stimulating since it uses your environment, the power of the display, so it kind of guides you towards better sleep hygiene and healthier circadian rhythms without even trying.

59:46 At the end of the day, technology isn't going anywhere, so the goal is to find tools that work with our biology, not against it, and this is definitely one of those devices. You definitely want to hurry up and grab yours today as they are extremely popular and run out of stock really fast. The link will be in the description below alongside with the 15% discount code. I absolutely love this. Wow what a fantastic breakdown. That was amazing, true rabbit hole and let's keep going down that rabbit hole.

1:00:13 Let's take the red pill. I want you to keep, I want you to keep going down this rabbit hole that you were going out. My actual question, which you kind of start of answering there already was. Do you think, you know, we came from evolution or do you think that someone or something put us here on the planet? Do you think that we just came from bacteria? Like what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, No, I don't. I don't think we came from bacteria. No, that's a nobody's ever thought that before. That's a this is an OK, the only civilization to ever believe something like that is the same civilization that's destroying itself by poisoning itself to death.

1:00:47 So, you know, do you want to trust the testimony of an insane person? Do you want to trust the the science of an insane culture? You know, just because we have the technology to build an iPhone doesn't mean we have wisdom. And we need to separate intelligence from wisdom. I think intelligence is actually a pretty toxic. I should back I should explain what I'm saying here. I don't think it would be fun if I had to be a dog. I don't think it would be fun to be a greyhound. A greyhound has been pushed so far genetically to an extreme end of what its genome is capable of producing.

1:01:24 So dogs, which are wolves, I mean, that's this whole aspect of domestication we haven't gotten into. But dogs are all wolves and the and the wolf has a pretty slippery genome that can be expressed in a lot of different ways, even more than humans. So imagine if you got, if I gave you the job of going around the whole world and getting the most diverse group of people possible to put. Like, let's say we were going to get, I want you to get 20 of the most different looking people you could possibly get and you put them in front of me.

1:01:49 You could imagine like a, a visitor from another world being like, wait, are these all the same species? You know, maybe you've got somebody who's 3 foot 11 and somebody else who's, I saw a basketball player the other day who's 6 foot 7 foot 9. Pretty big difference. I know people that weigh 500 lbs and I know people that weigh like 75 lbs as adults, right? You got people who are so black that they shimmer with like a crow's feathers where they shimmer with like a purple, almost like that beautiful deeply melanated skin.

1:02:18 And then I know people who are so fair skinned that you can see their vascularization in under their skin, right? Well, think about dogs. They're even, they're far more diverse than us, but they're all wolves. So if you were a greyhound, what's happened is you've been selectively bred for speed and running over time. Well, what you end up with is a dog that has like no extra body fat, super, super lean, but it has to run. It has to run. And so not a fun dog to own unless you want to be running this dog all the time.

1:02:49 It's almost like you've, you've pushed this dog into this unfortunate genetic circumstance. Similarly, when you push somebody into high IQ, because the average IQ, we don't need to go down this road. This gets weird but and culturally inappropriate, but, but IQ's are going higher and higher. And where that eventually goes is into neurological disorder. So if you get the IQ too high, you end up with kind of autism basically, right. So you, you start to sacrifice social skills for intelligence, right?

1:03:22 Like in the way that the ground, the sorry, the greyhound has sacrificed, you know, you don't just get all of that speed and not give something up, right? You know, this is an athlete, right? The, the bulkiest, strongest athlete has given up speed. The fastest athlete has given up muscle mass. The most mobile athlete has given up stability, the most stable athlete has given up mobility, right? You I like the idea of being the most well-rounded. So I always want to, I want to be #2 at everything instead set of #1 at anything.

1:03:51 That's my athletic perspective and my, my fitness perspective. And I, I feel like this with intelligence. So look, I want to be an intelligent person, but I don't want to at the expense of being able to have meaningful social relationships. But unfortunately, we've been bred for a kind of intelligence that actually is getting a little toxic to us, in my opinion. So you end up with human beings have been like pushed so far into our intellect that we've lost wisdom and we so we have all this intelligence.

1:04:22 But I like, I like, I have conversations with people Sometimes I can't believe it. I'll say to them, like I was saying to some guys the other day, that it's so obvious to me that the technologies that we're using right now are very bad for us. And people want to just go like, well, I think they're neutral technologies and it's really just how you use them. And I'm like, oh really? Then why don't you stop using it for a few days? Well, you can't because you're helplessly addicted to it. And it's destroying children.

1:04:51 It's destroying children cognitively, and it's leading to cognitive diminishment in humans. We're getting stupider because of it. And you think it's a neutral technology? That's like, imagine a retelling. I know you don't watch movies, but imagine a retelling of The Lord of the Rings where the ring is OK, the ring's just neutral. It's just how you use it. It's like, no, the ring is evil and it needs to be brought to Mordor and put into Mount Doom's fires where it came from to be destroyed before it unravels everything, right?

1:05:22 And that's how I kind of feel about our phones and that's how I feel about our social media. You know, people want to like, try to find the good in it, but like the amount of negative is so. But that is because they lack wisdom. Something that I've experienced being around indigenous people in North with America is this kind of wisdom where they'll say something to you that's so simple that if you're not careful, you could disregard it and not realize that it contains profound wisdom. We're so used to so many words, so much talking and so much, you know, we think something to be smart needs to be this thick and full of all big words.

1:06:00 And then somebody said something very simple and you're like, oh, it's just so simple. And it actually contains far more wisdom than the whole book of words, you know. And so we're at this point now where we, we've we've sacrificed wisdom for intelligence. We're sacrificing meaningful emotional connection for, you know, basically like this low level, like, like you must be aware that we have this thing called Dunbar's number. Dunbar's number means it's, it's the number of meaningful relationships that you can maintain.

1:06:33 So it's like 120, right? So in a, in a natural person's life, they can like know the name of, they would give a hug to about 120 known people. You can't know 5000 people meaningfully. You just can't. You might know 500 people, but you can only really be intimate with about 100 to 120 people where you like know their story and you're close. But social media gives you access to 10s of thousands of people. But it's like all so shallow and without meaning, right? That's kind of what I'm talking about.

1:07:09 It's like you can have a lot of intelligence and not. I don't know how I got here, so feel free to kick me into another question, but I just want to point out that I think part of this domestication process is we have been bred for intelligence, some of us, so that we can create the machines to make ourselves irrelevant and obsolete. And now we've we've reached that point, there's no longer incentive for the masses to be this intelligent. So what's happening to us as we're being dumbed down? Atrophy we're being made.

1:07:40 Yeah, it's atrophy of our minds now. We're getting into some really important territory here. This is a big part of what, you know, I'm going into a, you know, it's 2026. I'm launching a new podcast actually in the coming months here and working on all my new slideshows for this year. And all the stuff I'm going to be talking about in a major focus for me is what I'm about to to talk about here. What happened to us when we brought machines into our culture, what we call the Industrial revolution?

1:08:08 So we had the agricultural revolution we talked about earlier. Now we're talking about the Industrial Revolution, which came in phases, but that was the introduction of machines that did physical labor. And it seemed awesome at first. Machine does my washing, machine does my laundry, machine does my dishes, blah, blah, blah. Machine. You know, when when you think about your car 50 years ago, it's crazy when you get in an old car and it's like you feel like how thin it is on the edges and how the windows are so rickety and the steering's like, did the brakes are bad.

1:08:39 It's like, whoa, this is what cars were those back then were like electric carriages. Today your car is a robot. OK, You're getting inside of a robot. It's not a, it's not just a, you know, an auto carriage anymore, right. Transformers. Yeah, Well, you're getting in a transformer basically. So, so as we go into this, as we went into the era of machines, our bodies obviously started to atrophy. And over decades that created an environment where we needed people like you to show us what to do with our bodies because we became so atrophied physically that we needed someone to, we needed a hamster wheel to run on because the confinement that what we were told was that the machines were going to create this era of leisure where humans would just explore our interests because all the labor would be done.

1:09:31 And actually what happened is we went from like a 20 hour work week to a 30 hour work week to a 40 hour work week to now like the 60 hour work week where everybody's stressed to the Max. But we were supposed to get more leisure and we were going to. So now we're getting the same story. AI, you're going to have, you're barely going to work, you're going to have universal basic income. It's going to be awesome. It's like I'm already watching what's happening, which is that because people have AI assistance instead of they work less, they're expected to produce more than they could have before.

1:10:01 Just like if you get universal basic income, all of that money is going to immediately go to organizations that are come going to require that money of you. So as soon as you, if you get $1000 a month extra from the government, there's going to be all these new things you have to pay for that cost. All that money you're not going to have. It's not going to they, this drives me crazy. And they always present it like this. Like neural link. We need neural link because there's people who are quadriplegics and it's going to allow them to walk.

1:10:27 Oh really? Is that going to be the use case or is it going to be mostly people augmenting themselves who don't need it? Gonna be mostly people augmenting themselves who don't need it, right? So let's get these stories. So anyway, as we head into this new AI revolution, we're going to experience to our minds what we experienced physically in the era of the industrial revolution, which is that human beings who'd never experienced any meaningful amount of cancer, heart disease, diabetes or cognitive diminishment.

1:10:55 Now all those diseases emerge because people are not physically moving, right? The the connection between a neurological decline in movement is so obvious. We want to be like, oh, what's what's causing this? We have no idea what's causing all this. It's like it's pretty obvious. Your body, your brain is designed to move your body like you literally move, right. Yeah. So, so because people stop moving, they got fat and sick now because we're not going to use our brains. You know this too. How many times are you at a restaurant with somebody and the bill comes and they can't calculate a tip anymore?

1:11:29 I don't know if it's probably different in Cyprus, but here in the States, it's very typical. You give a 20% tip on whatever your bill is, right? So if I get a bill for $112, right, I know that I need to make my tip be 10 * 2. It's pretty easy to do, but we've all lost the ability. Now everybody goes to their phone because they have a calculator, right? So they've externalized their mind in the way we externalize labor. So now humans aren't going to be needed for intelligence anymore. The machines are going to be able to do the calculating needed to advance technology.

1:12:04 And soon the software writes itself and improves itself so we can get rid of the intelligent people and breed a whole group of stupid people, which is what we're doing. And man, it's pretty obvious. You know, I made a video recently, I don't know if you saw, but I brought out my second edition Webster's Dictionary. It's behind me there. I don't know if you can see that book, right. Let me see if I can get my finger there. Right there. It's the thickest book I own. It's about this thick. Wow. And every dictionary.

1:12:33 Every dictionary since then has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. Right. This is happens in the book 1984 with the creation of what's called new speak, which is the diminishment of language. Now if you listen to a Gen. Z kid talk like kids talk amongst themselves, you're like, what are they saying? And everybody like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like it is, right? We're going through, and when we try to read Old English, we realized pretty quick that people had more language skills than we have.

1:13:02 We're actually going through this time of cognitive decline and cognitive diminishment as a culture. So we're entering into a phase, the phase of stupidification of humans. My prediction is that in the same way, now you remember how old are you? Your blue light blockers. They're a scam. No seriously, use this RGB test on the screen to see if your red lens blue light blocking glasses actually work. If you can see any of the green or blue light on this green, that means your blue light blocking glasses are not protecting your melatonin.

1:13:28 Most people know about the harms of artificial blue light and so people go and buy blue light blocking glasses thinking they're all blue light blocking glasses are created equally. Unfortunately, they're not. And I'm specifically referring to the red lens blue light blocking glasses for the evening because one of the biggest game changers anyone can do for their health is to block artificial blue light, especially after sunset. You see, if your red lens blue light blocking glasses allow blue and green light through your eyes will still be picking up that signal.

1:13:54 So your brain will basically think that is still daytime. We know that sunlight is important, but the absence of artificial blue light and blue light in general after sunset is a biological necessity. And a good pair of blue light blocking glasses in this modern world filled with artificial blue light is an absolute non negotiable. So if you want to experience better sleep, mood and energy levels you need to be optimizing your circadian rhythms and that is by respecting the light and dark cycles.

1:14:17 This is why I use and trust Viva rays. There are three in one. Blue light blocking glasses give you full time protection from artificial blue light. You basically likely get 3 pairs of blue light blocking glasses for the price of 1. So if you wish to explore the blue light blocking glasses which I just talked about, head over to the description below and make sure to use the promo code attached to get a nice discount on your entire order. I was going to say 28, but I'm actually 30. That's so funny.

1:14:41 I'm stuck to. I'm stuck two years back. That's so funny. I have the same thing. I always think I'm like in my 20s, you know, I have to like remind myself now. But when I got into health food, we, we had these things called health food stores, but I mean, they were the size of a bathroom and they carried like 3 or 4 really products you don't even find in health food stores anymore. There was no organic certification. None of that existed yet. I've watched all of that emerge over the last few decades.

1:15:05 Similarly, the idea of gyms, what a gym was 30 years ago is not like gyms today. We didn't have this right. All of these gyms exist today to fill the gap for human movement and human exercise that stopped because of the industrial revolution. But there was a lag time. 30 years from now, if there's go, if this is all going on 30 years from now, you're going to have to be going to a mind gym. You have to go to a place where you do math and you read and you write and you work on all of those skills because the cognitive diminishments going to be so extreme that people just like people today want to look fit or feel fit, so they go to the gym or they work out at home.

1:15:41 Similarly, if people want to actually seem intelligent and be able to have real meaningful conversations, they're going to have to actually train their brains back because culture is not going to provide that for them. And so that's what we're going into now. And you know, personally, I think that people would be wise to set a little time aside in there. I know this is getting hard. So let me say that first. I know it's getting hard. You must run into this all the time. Like what I think people need for fitness is a lot.

1:16:07 And, and it's hard to tell people. I feel bad. So like recently I'm training a friend of mine, somebody I work with, and I've got her doing basically 5 minutes of kettlebell swings a week. Now I'm happy to do 15 minutes of kettlebell swings in a day. I mean, it's just, it's not very much right? And the reality is I don't want to tell her fully everything that I think she actually needs, which is maybe like, I think personally, two to three to two to five hours of meaningful cardio exercise a week, plus additionally hitting some zone 5 all out highest heart rate maybe every week, plus something that's increasing your strength and muscle mass.

1:16:42 So that's like a whole nother set of things, plus mobility and agility and balance stuff like that's it's a lot of stuff, right? We didn't used to need that. It was all built into our life. But once all that was taken, now trying to find the time to fit all that in. And then it's like, well, where am I going to fit in meditation that I'm supposed to be doing? And now I got to, now I'm about to add on to your list like math and reading and writing and some kind of gameplay that engages your mind multiple steps out.

1:17:11 Like I was playing chess with my wife last night. I used to play chess a lot when I was younger and I haven't been playing as much in recent years. And I decided I want to start playing again because I'm noticing it's getting harder for me to think multiple steps out. And what's wonderful about chess is I'm thinking, OK, if I do this, she does this or she does this. And then I got to explore both of those timelines. Oh, if OK, but if she does A, then I do this and then she does that. And then. But if she does B and, and you're holding that all in your head.

1:17:36 Well, I noticed that when I was younger that was a lot easier. But now with all of the overwhelming social media, like short videos and flashing lights and all this stuff, it's getting harder to like think it's like sometimes that's something with math where you go to do math and you're like, I can't think, so we need to be doing these things. So I'm doing things like adult math workbooks. I'm, I'm working on my penmanship. I read the Bible and I think, you know, finding something and this will depend on, you know, people's light, what language they read in and what, you know, what they want to read.

1:18:16 But I love the Bible for many reasons, But one of the reasons I like it is translations that challenge how I'm used to seeing language. Like, you could probably do something similar, though much less meaningful with Shakespeare. You know, if you pick up some Shakespeare, you're like, I need to read that sentence 65 times before I even understand what he's saying. And the Bible's like that, especially when you read something like the King James Version or even a contemporary version like the ESV, those language skills are diminishing rapidly.

1:18:48 So I think that in the same way that if you know, my personal view is like I said, you know, cardio, strength training, mobility, and then some bucket that I consider like agility, movement, balance, kind of thing. Like those are the the pillars for me. Similarly, math, reading, writing and something that makes you think multiple steps out. Maybe it's chess, maybe it's a go, it's certainly not checkers, right? So that's all going to have to, if we want to cognitively survive this world of AI, we're going to need to turn our brains back on.

1:19:23 And you're going to see rapidly. OK, another movie you probably haven't seen it is Idiocracy. Ever see that one? OK, just quick because it's important. The story. It's just a stupid comedy. If you if you don't have eyes to see how prophetic this film is, then it's just a stupid comedy. But what it is about is the most average man alive in the military. He's the most average intelligence, average height, average everything. He's the most average guy. They put him into a cryogenic sleep. He's supposed to be asleep for a year.

1:19:49 They're testing it to see can we freeze our best soldiers? But they don't want to start with the best soldiers, so they take their most average guy. Experiment goes wrong and he's asleep for 500 years. When he wakes up, he's now the smartest man alive. Culture has degraded to the point it's like a zombie movie, but instead of zombies they're just stupid. Hyper sexualized, hyper plasticized, nutritionally bankrupt, stupid, retarded people. And he's now gone from the most average to the most intelligent.

1:20:18 That's what's going to happen to you. Not in 500 years. In a couple of decades, if you keep your mind alive, you'll be one of the smartest people around because everyone's about to get as stupid as everybody got fat. The official community of the Fitness Wisdom Podcast is over on patreon.com/fitness Wisdom Podcast. This is a space where you can get to connect with the like minded community and tribe. Get at 3 episodes of the show so me your questions, guests and topics that you would like to see on the show.

1:20:45 Read my latest health optimization protocols and blogs. Get my guided workouts and mobility routines and the good discount on my group and one-on-one coaching programs. The link is in the description below. I look forward to connecting with you. Wow, fantastic. Yeah, I think This is why it's so important for people. To realize that, hey, like, what does it actually really mean to be human? And I guess that ties into my next question for you, right, which is like, what do you think a human is like?

1:21:11 What are what are our needs as a human being? Like what does a human actually need? You already touched on a couple of things, right? You talked about movement, you've talked a lot about nutrition. You talked a little bit about the environment. But you know, what are the needs that human actually needs in order to actually just thrive? Not only just survive Because you know what, as what was happening right now, we're just simply surviving. We're going from one day to the next. We're not critically thinking.

1:21:38 We're just like working. This is what you said at the beginning. Or that it doesn't feel right to live in a world where you are working for someone else. And This is why I don't work for someone else. I work for myself. I can't work for someone else because I feel like I'm choked. I feel like something is so off. And because you talked about this idea of the chief not being above everyone else, but being a leader, leading by example, like this is how you operate. This is how I operate. This is how we wish to, you know, be as human beings in order to take humanity forward.

1:22:11 That's part of our mission, right? We aim to be leaders and lead by example and just leave it to our true essence, right? It's, it's part of your reality. So what do you think it means to be a human being? It's so awesome to be asked this because I feel so unqualified. It's like, wow, really me? You don't know what I think it's pretty cool because that's a really big you're. Daniel Vitalis, you're the best person to answer this. Well, let me start with what you just said. I know I always do this, but let me just start with your first thing about work.

1:22:37 I love you. OK? I think this is really valuable. You know, I said everything's like in the language in front of you. It's sometimes it's scary when you see it like you're like, how have I missed this? But here's an example. A ploy is a trick or scheme designed to deceive you. Again, a ploy is a trick or scheme designed to employ you. The prefix M or N means to willingly or knowingfully go into. The word employ means to knowingly or willingly go into a scheme or trick designed to deceive you. When you employ somebody, you have a trick or scheme that you want to use and you get them to knowingly or willfully go into it.

1:23:23 You're the you're employee. You, you have the ploy. They go into the ploy. Now I have employees, but I really don't like to think about it like that. I'm an unusual boss because I like my people to have a lot of freedom. I like my people to feel like equals. I like my people to feel like they're sharing in what we're doing and what we're making an earning. But the traditional hierarchical system, it's right there in the word man. People look it up, look up Ploy, look up the prefix M and you're like, oh, oh, it's always been right there in front of me.

1:23:56 OK, So what do human beings need? If I understand your question, I've kind of been enumerating what I think we need physically for exercise. You know, that's our physical bodies needs. And then we need Whole Foods. I mean, that's very obvious. And we've kind of touched on that as well. And we need a range of Whole Foods that come from plants, animals, microbes. And when I say microbes, I mean fermented foods, like foods that where there's large colonies of microbes. And we need fungi as well. So yeasts and maybe macro fungi like mushrooms and things like that.

1:24:32 So those are very important to us. So we need that whole food diet. We need exposure to the elements. And that is not just that we go outside, but that actually we experienced the sine wave rhythm of temperature. So that's really important and and this actually get this reveals like one of the fundamental things about our society. So think about this will be right up your alley. Like our foot is designed for uneven, constantly changing terrain and not just terrain that's uneven, but some is wet and some is dry, some slippery, some is stable.

1:25:07 Sometimes the rocks move under your feet and poke you. Sometimes it's soft grass and all of that. You know, if you look at what's called a human homunculus, which is like a a body that's been deformed to show proportions of how much brain is used in the different body parts. So the hands are huge. The feet are also huge because there's so much neurology in the feet to tell you about the environment. But what do we do? We wrap a sock on the foot that is like a mitten, except the mitten doesn't even have a thumb.

1:25:34 So now the the sensory organ of the foot is clothes off and that then we strap it to a backboard. That's the sole of the shoe with the lacing system. That's very similar to like the backboard when you immobilize somebody who's been in a car accident, right? We do that to our foot and then we create only level surfaces to walk on. And the only variation in that would be stairs, which are also level in 90° angles so that we always walk on flat surfaces. Well, nature isn't like that, you know that.

1:26:03 So we need that uneven terrain. Well, it's like that with temperature. So we use this thing, we call it climate control. We love control, right? We like to try to control the environment. That's our big game. So let's say we always make it room temperature. Well, that's not how nature is. Nature gets hot and cold everywhere, right? So everywhere, like hot places are usually cold at night even, you know. So it's not, you know, you don't just sleep out in the jungle at night, like exposed. You still want to put something over you in the desert.

1:26:32 It gets cold at night even though it's very hot in the day, so there's a sine wave rhythm. It's the same with our heart rate. It's like, you know, you don't want your heart rate the same all day. You want your heart rate going up and down, up and down based on your activity levels. So we need this like changing environment so that you brought up hormesis earlier. You need things that challenge you physiologically. So you need to be exposed to hot and cold. That's really important. You, you know, to be like, oh, I always want that flat line of temperature or that flat line.

1:27:04 It's like you want a flat line in your heart because that's when you're dead, right? You want a flat, OK, but that's death. So we we want a sine wave rhythm. We want to be exposed to the environment. But there's deeper levels here. One of them is that human beings, because we are, we all understand that we're community oriented. So we think like when we're learning and if you study and you read those books or watch documentaries on the Blue Zones, you start to realize, oh, maybe it's not as much about the Mediterranean diet or the Okinawan diet as it is about the relationships that those people have.

1:27:39 Now we get that, but what people are missing, and this is really crucial and I think you probably not going to hear this from too many other places because just not many people have like figured this out. Human beings are a species that live embedded in an environment with 10s of thousands of other species species. But we're living like we're the only species here. Or maybe we have cats and dogs. So it's like, OK, it's cats, dogs and people and a couple of types of house plants. And that's it Why it's so important to have a relationship in the natural world.

1:28:09 And what I love about hunting and gathering is it puts you in direct relationship with all these other species. So in the same way that it's important to have a variety of friends and family members around you so you feel connected, a human being who's isolated from the natural world feels that the natural world is a threat to them. It's a place where they go to die. They, they could die from cold, they could die from drowning, they could die from heat, they could die from dehydration, they could die from poisoning.

1:28:33 They could die from what It's all they see. But when I go into my backyard, I'm encountering all, for instance, these tree species, like the Maple trees I mentioned before. I'm a friends with them. They provide Maple sugar for me every year and I we care for each other. We're friends. The Birch trees, I make syrup from them and I use their bark exclusively to make the fires in my wood stove. They're very important to me and they host some of my favorite mushrooms, the oak trees. The oak trees are so important to me because I I use the acorns that they produce for food and the oak trees are really important to me for hunting.

1:29:08 That's where I find deer and bears and squirrels and turkeys. So the oaks are super important to me, right? The poplars that I don't really use very much for anything are important to me because that's what the Beavers eat that maintain the bog in the back of my yard. That's really important, right? So that's just a couple of examples. When I go out there, I don't see a wall of green that's threatening to me. I see the disambiguation of that wall of green as all of these different species that I work with and support my life so that I know I'm a member of the community of life.

1:29:41 Many people are missing that. Now, moving forward, obviously you need meaningful relationships with people. And this is an area where I have, again, something I want to say that maybe you don't hear all the time. And it's took me a long time to understand. And honestly, it's wisdom gleaned from my wife, who is one of the biggest teachers in my life because she's got a kind of wisdom that I just didn't don't have and a kind of purity of heart that I didn't have. I used to develop my friendships based on mutual interest.

1:30:13 So whatever I was into, I wanted friends that has shared my interests. What I've learned is that's a great way to end up with some bad friends. Doesn't mean that you won't also find some good friends, but I've realized that it's more important to develop my connections with people based on the content of their spirit, the content of their heart. I would, yeah. I would rather hang out with a whole bunch of people that I don't have. It's hard sometimes I want to talk about the stuff I'm interested in and they don't necessarily get it, but they're the kind of people that are there for you.

1:30:43 They're the kind of people that listen, they're the kind of people that care about you. They're the kind of people that are there when you're down or you need help. That is a way more important community than a whole bunch of people that share your interests. So I would recommend that. But as you build community, you don't think, oh, I got to go find, maybe I go to some kind of an event. That's all People who have my same hobby. That's that's also good. But it's a great way to end up with some sociopaths in your network too.

1:31:08 So careful. I think a big piece here that maybe this is the biggest piece. I think human beings are a species unlike every other species. We're so different than all the other species on the earth. I don't think I need to explain that too much. It's pretty obvious if we don't have a God in our life, if we don't have a supreme being, that we both pray to and humble ourselves before. Or I want to be careful to include cultures that don't necessarily have a God, but have a. Purpose. Buddhism is kind of an interesting one.

1:31:42 It's not really a religion, it's kind of more of a moral philosophy. But if you don't have something like that that humbles you, you can end up in really bad terrain. Humans need this badly, and it's lacking right now, and I don't believe so. I believe that we're in a spiritual matrix, and I believe that there's good, good here and there's evil here. And a lot of it's personified. And I think what's happening now is that everybody is serving someone, and a lot of folks are serving evil and they think they're doing good.

1:32:16 And now is the time to get clear about that because actually, I think that's the point of why we're here. My whole life has been like, I got exposed to psychedelics when I was pretty young. And so I was thinking about things when I was young that I think, you know, maybe a decade or two almost too soon, but they've been on my mind for a long time as a result. And so I've had a little extra time to think about them. And one of the primary questions that I'll sometimes present to people and they'll like, not even know what I'm saying, but it's like, I'll be like, what is this?

1:32:46 What is this? That we're in? What is this place? What is the stuff? What is this? Because it makes no sense that, OK, you can basically discard The Big Bang guys. That's the stupidest idea ever. The you'll hear this in Christian apologetics sometimes. It's a very useful analogy. The Big Bang turning into this is more is 1000 times is orders of magnitude more impressive than a tornado goes through a junkyard and assembles a fully functioning 747 jet with all its electronics. The only way to get that to happen and you're seeing this now.

1:33:23 This is a cope. This is not this makes no sense except that it's a cope. You'll hear. Oh, there must be infinite universes. If you have infinite universes, then you can have one where a tornado assembles a 747 out of a junkyard, right? But barring infinite universes and dimensions, that's we all know that's preposterous. One of the things that we see is one of those constants in the universe is the second law of thermodynamics, which is entropy, the idea that all organized systems tend towards decay.

1:33:56 So we're told that all of the Suns are burning out, all of the planets are slowing down, all of the all of the systems are breaking down. Except that life is supposedly comes out of nowhere and spontaneously tends towards organization and creates more and more complex forms in the face of entropy. How can that make sense? How are you not a worm next year and not a, you know what I mean? Like how, how come we're not devolving in entropy, but we're evolving in an in a universe that's devolving? Does that make any sense at all?

1:34:32 When inside of your heart you have what's called the sinoatrial node, and that's where that spark that's regulating your heart beats coming from. I recommend everybody listening to this go sit in a dark place, close your eyes in a calm moment and send your awareness into that place in your heart where that spark is coming from and see where you go. What is that? What is enervating your heart and causing you to be alive? Because it's not some random accident of collision of stars. That's preposterous.

1:35:04 Preposterous. As we explore biology, more becomes more apparent that you're made of language. That's pretty stunning. Wait a second, DNA is a code? Do we get computer code randomly? How does this happen? There obviously is an intelligence at work. You have been systematically stupefied over time to so that this would be less and less obvious. It's really important to understand that there's never been a godless people in the world ever, until now. This is a completely new experiment. Atheism is a brand new experiment, and the results of it are catastrophic.

1:35:37 And actually what I think has happened is that people thinking they're atheists are actually serving what we might call demonic forces. And that's why when you look around, what are you seeing that this culture that's created, this supposedly enlightened idea of atheism is castrating children and mutilating them? It's it's destroying the lives of gazillions of babies. It's tending towards the expression of things we used to call satanic out in the open and we're calling it good. It's turns out that all of this scientific atheism underneath that we're finding out is human trafficking and child sex abuse and all these things that you're like, whoa, wait a second.

1:36:15 What wouldn't it be that we would get more enlightened and more kind and more it doesn't make any sense. So something wrote the code of our genome. Something's provided the spark of electricity that enervates life that we we can't like. I love to point out to people that we don't even have the ability with all the science we have. We can't even make synthetic calories. Think about how powerful that is in order. We didn't get into this, but but what food is I I go through a whole process of like, I love asking people this question.

1:36:47 What's food? Because people don't have any idea. I'll be like, what's food and people like calories? I'll be like, no, no, I think again, what's food? Foods are things you eat. It's like the answer. Food is the bodies of living creatures. You can't eat rocks, you can't eat sand, you can't eat stars or air. You have to eat the bodies of living creatures. Now you can process their bodies into something you don't recognize anymore. So that you go into the supermarket and maybe you come out with like a piece of candy and you're like, well, how is this a body?

1:37:17 It's like, well, because it's actually the blood of sugar cane that's been processed down into crystallized sugar. You know, you, you, you food is comes from living things and we don't know how to make even the food synthetically, no less. Can we bring something to life now that inability has been a chip on our shoulder for many, many, many millennia. And now we're finally reaching this place where we're able to create an idol that can walk and talk and move around, right? That's these androids.

1:37:50 Like Melania Trump came out the other day with an Android in the White House. Did you see that? She walks out with an Android and the Android comes out and introduces itself to the world. And then she goes on to explain how wonderful this is. These are going to teach your children in school and they're going to know your teacher so much better than human teachers. OK, So what we're going into, well, the we don't know how to create life. So we're, we, we want to desperately. Why? Because we've been convinced that the goal is human apotheosis.

1:38:20 We want to become God, and so we need to create life, but we can't. So we're making it out of machines and replacing ourselves with it. This is what's used to be called a Faustian bargain, a deal with the devil. The whole this is what's most shocking about earlier. It was like how did we get here, right. So we were talking about natural humans and then civilization like how did this happen. What's fascinating is everywhere you go in the world, I don't really know of exceptions. When you go around the world and you look at the legends in the stories, the stories are always that the knowledge was brought to us from the sky people or from beings that come from above or interdimensional beings somehow come and they teach us the book of Enoch calls it the knowledge that human beings were seeking.

1:39:03 We were desperately seeking this knowledge, but we it was going to take a really long time. And these beings come and they give us information that accelerates our process. And most of the world tells the story that this is good. But there's one tradition that tells the story, no, this wasn't good. This was bad for us. And that's a tradition I subscribe to. And the reason is, I think that it's like what happens when a predator wants to sexualize a child. It's not that sex is bad. You're not ready for sex when you're a child.

1:39:38 You need to mature first, then you're ready to handle sexuality. But if you're given sexuality as a child, I think we all know what happens. It causes massive destruction to the rest of that person's life. Human beings received not. So what's weird is that 6000 years ago, roughly somewhere around there, spontaneously, suddenly we have written language. Suddenly, spontaneously, we have geometry and mathematics that allow us to create. Massive structures that are perfectly aligned geometrically with celestial bodies.

1:40:11 We just suddenly have that math. Suddenly we have without metal tools, the ability to cut stones into these. I mean, you got you get it. I don't need to explain this. Somehow all of this arrived spontaneously. So the record, the actual archaeological record seems to point towards what all of these people are saying. And I think what happened to the home Homo sapiens as we were given knowledge that we weren't meant to have, yet we were diddled by, we were molested, essentially mentally molested by beings that had they wanted something from us and they got it and we traded it in exchange for knowledge.

1:40:47 And now and you know, what's interesting is this knowledge was called in the Christian tradition is called the knowledge, the it's called the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now in that tradition, we often represented as what fruit, you know, what fruit you usually see, which is what apple. Now it's not an apple because apples come from Kazakhstan and that's a whole nother story. But we the story in the Christian tradition is that it's an apple that we bit into. And that's why it's so important to recognize the symbolism that's being shown to you everywhere of an apple with a bite taken out of it and the idea of a knowledge that gives you technology that you're not even prepared yet to use.

1:41:29 And so the technology which could be valuable to us is toxic to us in the way that sex is toxic to a child. And so here we are again in the same story. So getting back to it, to answer your question with the final part of it, my final part of my answer, the reason I say it's important that you have a something that you submit yourself to is because that's the antidote to the hubris and pride that causes us to keep using these technologies in ways that are destroying us and destroying everyone around us we don't have.

1:42:02 So I was, I've been talking about the difference between intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence can create AI and can create androids and machines, right? Wisdom tells you it's probably not a good idea. Wisdom tells you, hey, if we do that, we should at least do it really slow. And we should make sure that the technology doesn't undermine our Physiology or our cognition. We should make sure it doesn't destroy our economies. We should make. But no, that's not what we're doing. We're going as full throttle as fast as possible with no restraints and we're letting where we've we're doing it with capitalism so that the only incentive is profit so that we push these things out as fast as possible.

1:42:48 That is, on its face, the lack of wisdom. So going back to it, I know it seems like a big broad range of things. What we need cardio and we need good food. And on the other end of it, we need to understand in these indigenous cultures that we've been talking about before that hunt and gather, there's a universally A tremendous prohibition on the expression of ego. So this is one of the biggest differences between our culture and cultures of the past. In cultures of the past, you never brag, you never speak mightily of yourself.

1:43:20 You if you kill the animal on the hunt, you are often not allowed to be the one who brings it back to camp, lest you be proud. You know that, hey, I'm dependent on all these people, and they're all dependent on me. We're now in a culture that's gone so far to the other extreme that if you just turn on the radio, you're going to hear people singing about how amazing they are and everyone else is stupid and how powerful they are and how weak everybody else is. And yo dog, I'll murder you because I'm so good and you're so whatever, you know what I mean?

1:43:49 It's like, it's literally the worship of the ego. We've gone to the other extreme and we need to balance that by submitting ourselves to a higher force that reminds us that we aren't that important and that we're here for a really short time. And what a mistake to miss the opportunity you have been given, an opportunity that spiritual beings long for, higher spiritual beings long to do what we do, to have this opportunity for the maturation of your soul, for the purification of your soul and the purification of your heart.

1:44:22 And if energy isn't created or destroyed and you are going to carry on in some way to something beyond this be a real mistake to miss this opportunity for what it's for. Because it's not for accumulating wealth, it's not for creating dominance over other people, it's not for sexploitation, it's not for any of, it's not what it's for. This is an opportunity to purify your soul so that you're ready for a dimension that's better. Because imagine if there's a dimension below this one and the dimension above this one.

1:44:53 And how you choose to live in this life determines which one you vibrate towards or which one you're more fit for, in a sense. And if there's a dimension that has all the suffering of this dimension, but none of the good, and there's a dimension that has all the good of this dimension, but none of the suffering. And you're right in between right now, how you live might determine not because some angry God is punishing you. It's because actually your choices, which are based on your free will, the greatest gift in the universe, you aren't an AI.

1:45:22 You have free will. So if you use that will to put yourself into a prison dimension or a suffering dimension, you don't get to blame anybody. You don't get to blame some mean God for judging you. You used your free will for that, and you knew it was the wrong thing because every one of those choices created more suffering. But you did it anyway. And if you choose in this life to give up your life to serve others and to serve good, and you get to move and graduate to something better, would that not be?

1:45:55 And if every day doing that led to more internal fulfillment so that your life here was more fulfilling and your life afters more fulfilling, would that not be the point? And then if that was what this was about and there was entities in that lower dimension that badly wanted to snack on you, badly wanted to snack on you, and wanted you to come with them and wanted you to go in that direction. Wouldn't they constantly deceive you and constantly fill your mind with so much distraction that you would not be able to take a second step back and recognize what they're saying of all this was, yeah, kind of looks like what's happening to me.

1:46:38 And so I think it's important we eat whole food. It's important we get exposed to hot and cold. It's important that we have loving, meaningful relationship. All that's important. But let's also not that's not the goal, right? Because sometimes people, I know I've talked a lot here, so I'll just say this last piece. Sometimes people think, and I'm sure you've encountered this a lot, that if I do all the things, if I eat right, exercise right, meditate right, if I do all the things, I'm going to become like immortal.

1:47:05 I'm going to become like a God. I'm going to become something higher. And it's like, no, you'll still be a retarded version of what people were just 10,000 years ago. You'll be less than what a Native American person was because they were doing all that stuff and they weren't immortal. They didn't live forever. They lived in a kind of paradise. They ate only good food. They got tons of exercise. They were surrounded by meaningful community. Their basic day-to-day existence was everything we're trying to do as biohackers and more.

1:47:33 And they weren't constantly exposed to poison and heavy metals and, you know, misinformation and all that. So even if I do everything right from a biohacking perspective and an exercise perspective and a nutrition perspective, I'll still not even be close to the baseline of people who lived in a cleaner environment and they didn't become gods. So obviously the point isn't doing all these things. We do all these things so that we can be healthy enough to not suffer and maybe create the space for all the work that I was just talking about, which is much more spiritual than physical.

1:48:07 Yes, we are 100% in a spiritual war like you mentioned throughout this entire episode. Then it is up to us to take ownership and responsibility of our vessel, our, you know, because we only have one home for this like lifetime that we are here for. And in order to embody our highest self, to be the best versions of ourselves and to be the best to others and society, we need to be able to take, we have to take care of ourselves. And exactly as you mentioned, we need to, you know, reconnect with nature and live as a human is designed to live.

1:48:38 And when we dissociate ourselves from the natural world, we're also losing a part of ourselves. And this is what's dangerous about it, right? That when we are indoors surrounded by artificial blue lights and non-native Emfs, it's so much easier to be mind controlled. A lot of people still think this is a conspiracy theory, but you know it's not. Because that's just how our biology is literally wired. We're meant to be addicted to specific things by design. We're meant to be addicted to blue light from the sun, not from a screen.

1:49:08 But they have like figured how to reverse engineer everything that's actually happening. And now we are basically controlled like slaves. And even you and me who are aware of these things, even us, fall into this trap sometimes. And we're free range cattle, so. So yeah, it's awesome to be like, I would rather be free range cattle than factory farm cattle. Yes, but that doesn't mean you're free, right. So just because the cow has a, the fence is bigger. But you know, you, you can't just go do what you want either, can't you?

1:49:38 So, yeah, we're, we're like living on a farm and the whole earth is being turned into one. And 2026 for me is about I don't care what the normies think anymore. For a really long time, it would be like, well, this might sound kind of fringe or this might kind of the, if you don't know now, you're willfully ignorant. It's exposed. And actually, this is a really weird moment. I'm sure you've noticed this, Andreas, in the last couple of months. Somehow all the stuff that used to be suppressed online is just allowed to be seen now.

1:50:09 We're starting to think it's like they're letting us see it. I don't know why. I'm not sure what the big picture is, but it's all coming out. And if you don't know now, you're willfully ignorant. And I don't care if you think I'm crazy because I've got bigger jobs to do. It's this is important work we're doing. And I can't be bogged down by what somebody who's, it's like, there's this Bible verse. It's not totally relevant to this, but it's kind of close. It says the message of because like, as I believe in Christ.

1:50:36 And so when you tell people that they instantly think you're stupid sometimes if they're not into it, like they're like, Oh, I thought, well, you're stupid. Oh, I didn't realize, you know, it's hard, but it, there's this Bible verse that says the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it's the power of God. It's very similar. It's like I say this stuff. Somebody might think I'm foolish. They're the one dying. I don't care what the dying think about.

1:51:02 I don't don't care what like like another thing Jesus says, you know, to a guy, a guy says, hey, I want to follow you, but first I need to wait for my father to die and then bury him. And Jesus goes, well, why don't you let the dead bury their dead? It's like that, dude, that's a hard lesson. But it's like the people whose brains are dying, we've let them for a really long time make us feel stupid or make us feel fringe or make us feel like conspiracy theorists. Look, it's out there now. If you want to be, if you want to be mentally dead, be mentally dead.

1:51:30 But I'm not going to let that create a box around me anymore. Not in 2026, maybe in 2024-2025. But now that we know that they are selling children and eating them. It's like, you know, pretty sure at this point I don't care anymore. Like I'm, I'm go, I have a mission. And that mission is to wake up the people that want to be woken up, but the people that want to be asleep, let them sleep. There's no time anymore. There's no time for this games anymore. I feel like if you managed to go through COVID and you didn't wake up, like there is like something seriously wrong, you know, like there are still people out there who are still getting their 10th, 11th booster.

1:52:06 So it's, it's wild like the, you know, the situation we're living in right now. And just to just to say, mention something on what you said about the information coming out and why you, you're wondering why they're releasing it all. I do. I feel that because so many people are not willing to stand up, you know, for their rights and to just stand up in general against something because I feel like we don't know what to stand up to, you know, And I feel like this is now tying into my last question is how can we take self ownership and responsibility of ourselves?

1:52:41 What are some practical tips that people can start doing to rewild themselves, you know, straight away from, you know, based on everything that you've been saying, what are some practical tips that people can start doing, you know, in their lives to start being more human? There's so many things, so let me just kind of process that down. I think for a lot of people, you know, it's going to be a lot of things. I'm sure you've been telling I, you know, I'm sure you've been telling people these things for a long time.

1:53:06 So I'll, you know, all of it's valuable, I think 1 unique piece that I bring because like I want to say things like man, well, take your shoes off and go outside like that, all that stuff. I'm sure you've been saying that for a long time to people. So one thing that I think I can add that often gets missed in this is to develop a relationship with a non human species that isn't a domesticated pet. So if you live in Cyprus, maybe it's eating that snail you were telling me about, because if you eat that snail, maybe the first time it's just food and you're like, this is cool.

1:53:41 But after a while, if you want to find that snail, you have to start thinking like that snail. If I want to catch a brook trout, which is a beautiful fish species here that I like to eat and I love to just look at, if I want to catch them, I have to think about, well, where are they going to be? Because they're not just anywhere. So then I have to think about like, well, what do they need? And I know what they need. And that brings me to the places where I know they will be. And the more I do that, the more I start to realize like I'm in relationship with this animal.

1:54:08 You know, I'm with that species. Like I have a relationship with that species. So maybe for somebody listening, it's just developing one relationship with one plant. And and if you're like, I don't know what plant to start with, one good thing to do is, look, everybody's sick, OK? Even the best of us have stuff that we're we're working on, right? 100%. In our health, so if your thing is what whatever your thing is, maybe you you look up local herbs that grow where you are that may have a therapeutic effect on that.

1:54:38 So like maybe somebody just, it's going to be as simple as a dandelion or as simple as stinging nettles or as simple as, you know, whatever greens grow in the mountains where you are. And then you're just like, I'm going to just pick one of these species. And the first step is like, I'm going to go out and, and learn how to find it. I'm not going to pick it. I don't need to do anything. I just need to, Oh, it's that. And then it's like, well, I'm going to start noticing where that is because, you know, as you're walking outside again, it's that wall of green.

1:55:02 I don't know what anything is. So it's just all green except, Oh, wait, that's that plant that I've been looking for. And after a while, it's like someone else, you know, in the world, in the real world, there's someone else you know, and, and once you work with that plant, maybe maybe you do that with another or an animal or whatever it is. But I do think it's smart to start developing relationships with other species. Part of this is that because it's overwhelming in the beginning. So if you were like, oh, I want to become a wild food person like Daniel, well, it's going to take some time.

1:55:30 It took me a long time, but it creates like an antifragility. So that look, even if you know everything, I know I've made six seasons of ATV show doing this, right? And I've been doing it a lot longer. So I know a lot about wild food. But if all of a sudden the supermarket shut off tomorrow, it's not easy that I'm going to just be like eating out from the wild. It's not that easy, right? The world is not the world of what it used to be. It's all fractured up. It's all fences, it's all people's yards.

1:55:57 Everything's been changed. There's very little left. It's all poisoned. Like it's not the same. So it would be hard for me, but it'd be a lot easier for me than most people, right? So I have like an anti fragility built in if the system will goes down for any period of time. I have that now. Maybe it never goes down, but I don't have that fear in the back of my head that I know everybody else has because they've experienced like, oh, things are looking unstable. Do I have do I know how to serve even stay alive?

1:56:23 But the more of those species you know, the more you don't just feel more connected to the environment, but you feel less scared and you feel more prepared and you have a network of other species you're connected to. So I would say that like in addition to all the other things that I've been talking about and you talk about I'm sure all the time and your guests talk about all of that stuff, plus maybe start developing some relationships with some other species. I love this. I love this so much. Thank you so much.

1:56:51 Daniel Vitalis. This was such an incredible conversation. You literally blew my mind on so many different parts. I always, I always love re listening to the episodes with my guests and, you know, because there's so many parts which I just don't catch in the moment, right? Because I'm always like processing my mind is one step ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Or just trying to grab onto your words that you're saying there or your points. And yeah, I just kind of feel like there is so much wisdom in this episode that you share then a beyond, you know, the hunting and gathering and foraging, which was like my initial idea of our conversation.

1:57:25 We went so much more meaningful and so much deeper, you know, into the spirituality and be what does it actually mean to be human? It's literally like to embody like your highest self and to have a purpose and to have some something, someone to look up to because without that purpose, like, what's the point living, you know? You know, everybody, as you said, is aiming to be like jacked Greek gods, but like, what's the point of that in the end? Like what are you going to do with that? Like the whole point is that you're supposed to serve something, right?

1:57:57 You need to have some form of purpose. You need to provide to somebody like your family, you know, to yourself. He said, if you, if you can't do that, then who are you good for? So I, I just want to thank you so much for all the all your wisdom that you share, and I appreciate your work and, and the message that you're sharing. And it's just so amazing to see you like, you know, to see your open mindedness and your pattern recognition is you, you know, your, your ability to recognize patterns. That's so, so important.

1:58:25 And I feel like you've enlightened us today and the audience and you've, you've really planted some seeds. So I want to thank you for this. And I'm sure people are going to look back ten years on this episode, and they're going to be, you know, still processing the information that you just said, you know, because, as you said, everyone's getting, you know, Dumber and Dumber and Dumber. Thank you so much. And of course, I'd love to do it again in the future. So where can people find you, connect with you, and work with you if they wish?

1:58:50 To do so and thank you for all you just said do that. That's like water to my roots to hear that. And I'm really trying to like take in everything you just said. So thank you very much. And the best place to find me is on Instagram. That's where I'm most active and that's like really me. So at Daniel Vitalis on Instagram and as I said, I'm getting ready to launch a new podcast, which I'm really excited about because in the past my podcasts have been very genre specific. I did the Wild Fed podcast, which was about hunting, fishing and foraging.

1:59:18 And so, you know, that's a limited interest to people and then Rewild Yourself was more popular, but I always was really on that theme. My new show is the Dana Vitalis show. I just want to be able to talk about anything without restrictions. And so I'm very excited about that. They can find my television show on myoutdoortv.com, which is the streaming service for Outdoor Channel because I was on cable TV. So that Channel, that network has a streaming platform called My Outdoor TV or MO tv.com. And I've got a 50 episodes are up there right now because 10 are airing on television.

1:59:51 But soon all 60 episodes will be there. And then I have a nutritional supplement company, Sir Thrival, like so the word survive with thrive in it, Sir Thrival. And check that out because we got some awesome products and products that are are the food version of many of the drugs people are taking down to modify themselves. So rather than bioidentical testosterone, we sell pine pollen products that contain natural testosterone. Rather than peptide therapy, we sell colostrum, which is like a food based peptide that has actually over 4000 peptides in it.

2:00:22 We have, you know, our antler product, which is kind of like the most steroidal thing for muscle mass and human growth hormone that you can get from the natural world. So check out my product line as well and stay tuned for the new show. I'm just so pumped to to get podcasting again. So, and I just again want to thank your audience for their ear and for listening. And Andreas, I want to thank you personally for I know as a creator 10 creator, you know, you open up your platform to somebody else.

2:00:53 It's like that hard won audience that you have. So it means a lot to me that you let me share with your audience. So thank you very much, really appreciate that. And hey, if you're listening to this and you liked any of this, please follow me on Instagram because man, people always say it, follow me, like me, don't comment. But man, it really helps us a lot. Like that's our currency, our bread and butter. So you know, that's like you coming through the door if we had a shop. So please do that. It means a lot to me.

2:01:16 You know, I, when I first heard you, I, I liked you straight away. You know, I felt that, you know, you feel this deep connection, even though it's through technology, you still feel that connection with another person, right? The same with our, our brother, like Luke story. I feel like a deep connection with him, even though I don't know him. And I would absolutely love to get him on the on the podcast as well. And so, yeah, you know, you just know deep inside, you know, when you have this connection.

2:01:41 So of course I wanted to have you on the podcast then. You know, it's I've only been doing the podcast one year now and you know, I've just been interviewing all the people which I wish to talk to. You know, I would never have ever imagined that I would talk to, you know, like you, for example. And so it's such a blessing for me to get to sit down with you and to have this conversation and to share this meaningful information with the world. So thank you so much and please stay on the line when I end the recording.

2:02:08 Got it. Thank you so much, ma'am. If you guys enjoy the topics and guests I bring on the show, I would really appreciate if you left me a five star review on Spotify and subscribe to Fitness Wisdom Custom YouTube as well. This helps us spread the knowledge and wisdom with the world. Until next time.