Sunlight and Skin Cancer! What your Dermatologist won't tell you! Zaid K Dahhaj | Vitamin D, Circadian Rhythm, POMC, Mitochondrial Health, Skin Regeneration, Blue Light, Sleep Hygiene, Solar Callous

0:03 This is the Fitness Wisdom Podcast.

0:08 Hello and welcome back to another exciting episode of the Fitness Wisdom Podcast. Today we have a returning guest, Zaida Hajj. I would call him a foremost expert on the subject of circadian and quantum biology. It's a pleasure to have you back, Zaid. Thank you for coming. Thank you, brother. I think it's it's going to be a great conversation, especially considering that we already did the live a while back and so I'm so excited decided to dive in. Yeah, and for anybody who hasn't listened to that episode, actually you can find it on YouTube and also on Spotify on the Fitness Wisdom Podcast, I believe it was episode 8 and we covered the fundamentals of, you know, circadian biology, why it's so important and all of the implications with that.

0:45 So definitely go and listen to that. It's going to be a mind blowing conversation after you listen to this one. I'll make sure to also put it in the description below. So this is one of the biggest questions that everyone has. Does the sun cause skin cancer? Yeah, I mean, it's a loaded question. I do not believe that full spectrum sunlight inherently causes skin cancer, especially when you understand the importance of circadian alignment and essentially how we evolved as a species. You know, whether you believe in divine intervention, you believe in God, or you believe in evolutionary biology, or even both simultaneously, I think it it makes a lot more sense.

1:20 It's more directionally accurate to say that full spectrum sunlight is inherently protective against all forms of cancer, especially skin cancer. And so, yeah, there's a lot of holes, centralized narrative that we can dive into, but fundamentally, I don't think it causes any form of cancer. It's actually protective. So why do you think that skin cancer incidence is increasing even though people are spending more time indoors more than ever and they're also wearing more sunscreen than ever? Why do you think it's actually increasing?

1:49 It's a great question because I think it points to the foundational paradox or contradiction, which is the fact that most people are spending their time indoors. Think the average person in the state spends around 90 to 95% of their time indoors. And then you have, you know, fundamentally A circadian species that is living inside that is doing everything they can to protect themselves against skin cancer and overall sunlight. Meanwhile, rates of skin cancer and other chronic diseases are skyrocketing like never before.

2:17 I mean, it's a real problem these days. And so what's the first contradiction? Like if if these people are following all of the central wise recommendations with the sunscreen you use sunglasses, sun avoidance, why is it that they're experiencing record rates of disease, especially skin cancer? And so I think that points to the idea that there there's a lot more to the discussion, There's a lot more nuance. And it also makes sense from the standpoint that, you know, we are a circadian creature, which means that the circadian system is oriented around the light and dark cycle.

2:45 And when you think about the fact that we are spending most of our time indoors without any of the full spectrum, we have sunlight deficiency, we have isolated blue light excess, we have non-native EMF excess. We we have native EMF deficiency. And again, you go down the list with altered spectrums. Vitamin D3 production is at an all time low. Endogenous melatonin is just not active. Then you begin to come to a more accurate understanding of what's really going on, especially considering, you know, how we how society is essentially changed from the advent of the industrial revolution.

3:22 What a brilliant breakdown. And so you mentioned a couple of things that are that are actually contributing to this incident. So for example, you said about the lack of darkness at night, you said the artificial blue light, the presence of non-native electromagnetic fields, which are coming from all electronic devices these days, cell phones, microwaves, basically anything that's electronic is emitting some form of EMF. And also our disconnect from nature as well. So a lack of sunlight and the lack of the grounding, basically getting our bare feet or our body in a in a body of water.

3:54 And so how does they, how does the lack of darkness or the OR the presence of light at night, especially the wrong type of light, impact us? Well, we always have to preface this with the fact that the light and dark cycle is a natural duality, right? A lot of people in the space call it a coupled system, especially Cruise. And I do agree with that because ultimately, like the, the very foundation of our body and really all life on this planet evolved under that light and dark duality. And so a lot of people talk about the full spectrum sunlight discussion.

4:26 That's important, but they also don't talk about the darkness at night. And so when we consider that darkness at night is a, is a fundamental part of skin regeneration, most of the skin actually regenerates at night. That's an important consideration. So not only do you have most people avoiding the sun or being exposed to altered spectrums, which is inherently damaging to the skin barrier, but then on the other hand of the spectrum, you, the fact that people are just not regenerating their skin at all because they're not getting that darkness at night.

4:57 And so this is fundamentally why we have a problem with darker days and brighter nights when it should be the opposite. It should be brighter days outside and darker nights with minimal circadian lighting. And so when you look at the skin barrier comprehensively from the epidermis to the dermis hypodermis, you know the entire system is built around light. There are quite literally light sensing proteins within every aspect of the skin barrier that play a huge role into not only circadian function and signaling, but also into regeneration.

5:26 And that's not even to mention the melanin, the mitochondria, carotenocytes, melanocytes, all these aspects are light sensing in nature. And so if we have this skewed light and dark cycle or essentially a lack of a light and dark cycle, then we inevitably come across problems over the long term because, you know, if if you do this like a one time a week or maybe a few weeks in your life, it's not going to make that big of a difference. The problem is people are exposing to them, exposing this altered spectrum.

5:56 And you know, this circadian dysfunction over the long term, 10:20, 30-40 years. And I think that's really where we start to get into issues where we see a a rise in the manifestation of various skin cancers. Wow. Yeah. And so basically what you just said there was that if we are not getting that regeneration that's supposed to happen in the night time by respecting the evening time, by making it darker night when it should be after sunset, we are now not repairing our body and it's not coming back stronger and ready to encounter the stress of the next day, right?

6:29 Because obviously we encounter many stressors throughout the day, but obviously the sun is also one of them. But the, the sun also comes with a built in mechanism for repair, right? Because you also mentioned at the beginning that actually the sun is protective against skin cancer. Can you go a little bit deeper into that? For us, sure, it's a great question. So we have to understand that essentially every aspect of the human body in relation to the light dark cycle is designed to protect itself or at least create balance within the system.

6:58 You know, you think about how near infrared light during the daytime creates endogenous sub cellular melatonin within each mitochondrion. And the whole reason why that's, you know, a fact of existence is because it is designed to balance out oxidation within the actual cell. And so, you know, touch up on any subject in the body from a cellular standpoint, there is this push and pull to it. And so if you look at, let's say something like thymine dimers, which is essentially the, the precondition to DNA mutations that the centralized philosophy always talks about.

7:31 It's the reason essentially why they say that the sun causes DNA damage. What they don't consider is that, you know, vitamin D3, which is produced from UVBUVB also creates those thymine dimers, actually enhances anti cancer defense systems that essentially cancel out that meet that potential mutation. And so we always have to understand that even though thymine dimers occur, there's always something like nucleotide excision repair that comes on the back end to actually repair that damage. And so it's not even damage that's the important point.

8:04 It's actually AU stressor. There's a difference between eustress and distress. Eustress, hormetic response, creates a stronger Organism fundamentally, while distress, on the other hand, destroys the Organism over time. And so that's what I want people to understand, is that the entire circadian system is built around hormesis. And that's for some reason what the dermatologist, the centralized physicians, have not come to grasp yet. Wow, thank you so much for that. And so basically we're supposed to be producing melatonin the entire 24 hours basically because if you think about if we're producing cellular melatonin from sunlight and then we're producing pineal melatonin after sunset.

8:45 In reality we're producing we're supposed to produce melatonin 24/7. We're never meant to be without it. But now with what you mentioned with darker days and brighter nights, we're not, we're spending more time indoors. So we're not getting the sunlight. So we're not getting this cellular melatonin and then we're not getting the pineal melatonin at night. And that's actually a huge risk factor for all, all 'cause mortality, right? It creates a lot of problems because obviously now your body is not able to repair and regenerate.

9:15 And because melatonin we know is this super antioxidant and it just does so much more in the body, right? We people tend to think of melatonin just as the sleeping hormone, but it's really, it does so, so much. You tapped into vitamin D there for a second. You said that also is very protective against skin cancer and how basically the sun comes with the right recipe basically for for the stressor. And so do you think that vitamin D from a pill equals to vitamin D from the sun? And why? Yeah. No, no, I mean not at all.

9:46 I think that if you look at the difference, well, first of all, some great points that you mentioned, number one, vitamin D3 from full spectrum sunlight UVB more specifically, is a potent anti cancer compound. It's probably one of the most potent ones out there. And then that also ties into the endogenous melatonin in both forms, which is arguably, you know, more powerful than vitamin D3. I mean, endogenous melatonin up regulates glutathione. It's fundamentally anti cancer, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, all that good stuff.

10:13 So you know, when you look at end or exogenous, you know, vitamin D or melatonin in pill form, it just doesn't come close and it really comes with second and 3rd order consequences when you understand how the system works. So if you look at like the the work of Doctor Alexander Gerwich, he talks about or not Doctor Alexander Gerwich, apologies Dr. Alexander Wunch, they often have same names. He talks about how there is a fundamental difference between exogenous and endogenous vitamin D production.

10:41 And so when you produce vitamin D, the natural method through UVB exposure, it goes through the trans route that it's designed to go through, which is the vitamin D binding protein. But then when you take vitamin D from a pill, it goes through a more inefficient transport route, which is the lipoproteins. And so even though you might get a little bit of benefit, you know, on the surface level with 25 hydroxy status, what is it doing to the rest of the body? Like it's just not the method that we were designed to get vitamin D. And so that's not even to mention the other metabolites of vitamin D that are often water soluble that we store through sunbathing.

11:18 That's not to mention the the difference in genetics, the difference in mitochondrial function. And I think in general, if you study vitamin D from a pill versus the sun, the the latter is way more effective in terms of actually producing vitamin D3. And it addresses all these other points that the centralized orthodoxy really doesn't consider. Light influences every single system of your body from mood, skin health, cognition, energy levels, gut health, sexual function, training, performance, recovery, wound healing, body composition, and so much more.

11:49 This is why I make sure to block the harmful artificial blue light and expose myself to the beneficial wavelengths of light. Optimized my biology Upgrade in your biology today by upgrading your light environment. Head over to emrtech.com/mobility Fitness and use the promo code Mobility Fitness for a massive 20% discounted checkout for the best red light therapy panels on the market and the best blue light blocking glasses. And could you maybe list some of the benefits in general of being exposed to the sun?

12:17 Because I feel like, you know, now that you just mentioned this, people will be, you know, more motivated to get sunlight, to get vitamin D. But that's what people think, right When they think of sunlight, they just sunlight equals vitamin D, or it equals brightness, or it equals heat. But could you maybe get into what else does the sunlight do for the human body? It's a fantastic point and I think it's for the audience. We have to be careful to avoid falling into the same trap that centralized practitioners fall into, because fundamentally they think they think from a reductive standpoint, which means they focus on reductionism as opposed to holism.

12:55 They only see the body as mechanical, they only see the body as isolated parts when it's really the synergistic magic that happens in and you know, the the human body in general is is a lot more than the sum of its parts. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. So we have to understand that we have to look at the entire body as a system. The system's thinking is so important here. So sorry, apologies early in the morning. What did you ask again? I asked like, what are the other benefits of sunlight beyond vitamin D production?

13:25 Got you. So beyond that, you have, you know, the activation of the POMSI system through UV light. I think that's an important consideration when you look at the pro opium melanocortin system, it uses UV light to then activate the world's most powerful peptide hormones essentially. So you have the MSH family melanocyte simulating hormones that creates melanin, which is nature's original sunscreen, fundamentally anti-inflammatory, pro reproductivity. So it actually increases sexual appetite and essentially sexual function.

13:56 So which is a great thing for our species considering procreation is the number one goal. It is an appetite suppressant. It you know, increases metabolic rate and metabolism at large. You have beta endorphin in cart, which are opioid peptides that have analgesic effects. Again, a lot of interrelated effects that we can see through these peptide hormones. Outside of that, you know UVA stimulates nitric oxide in the body, which is great for the cardiovascular system. It actually vasodilates the VAT micro and macrovasculature and it allows more blood flow to come into the system.

14:32 And then UVB is interesting because it's really the only light wavelength range response for vitamin D3. As we mentioned, UVA and UVB within the full spectrum are actually great for the skin. So I know a lot of people talk about photo damage and photo aging, but UVA and blue light together actually destroy acne completely. They destroy the bacteria. I think it's acnes responsible for acne, which is why people report that their acne gets better when they start sunbathing. Yeah. And then, you know, you go down to this visible light, whether it's blue for circadian signaling through melanopsin, green for reducing headaches.

15:06 You know, Tom Seger has done some great work on this, whether it's orange, yellow, purple, all of these wavelengths offer some benefit fundamentally. And then of course, we have the, the thing that we love to talk about, which is the infrared range, which makes up most of the solar spectrum. And I mean, if you go through the literature, it's absolutely incredible how much infrared plays a fundamental role in, in biological function and, and balance. I mean, the ability to stimulate blood flow independent of other mechanisms, the ability to regenerate the skin, create collagen, elastin, hyaluronic acid within the skin barrier.

15:41 And again, you go down the list. It's just so fundamental. Wow, what a great breakdown. Thank you so much for that. I think that will be the biggest motivator now for people to get into the sun. And you also mentioned about the Pomcey system. I think a lot of people don't actually know what the pom C system is. You just explained it like real brief. So why is it like so important to understand the pom C system and how? Where is it located? You know, where does it come from? So think of the POM C system is it's originally a gene.

16:11 So everyone has the POM C gene. There are some, there's some rare subsection of the population that has a deformation or dysfunction in that gene genetically. And so that actually leads to a lot of. But yeah, this gene is ancient. I mean, I think it's, you know, Cruz talks about it a lot, but I think it's like 500 million years old. It's like ancient, ancient gene that really translates into other species as well. But it fundamentally responds to the full spectrum. And so it is a circadian light sensing mechanism from my perspective, that ends up essentially acting like the the most powerful drug farm or the most powerful, yeah, drug pharmacy within our body because these peptide hormones are not just some ancillary thing that the body kind of uses.

16:54 No, they're, they're fundamental peptide hormones that we use to really control everything within the body from neurotransmitter production to metabolism to the interrelation, the relationship between leptin and ghrelin and whatnot. And so that's a very important thing. And then in terms of where it's located, I mean, fundamentally the brain, the skin also activates palms, palm C and contains palm C neurons. The gut contains palm C neurons. There are, I really think it's found throughout the body essentially because of how fundamental it is from a circadian standpoint.

17:26 And so once we understand that and we understand that this is not pseudoscience, then we can start to get into the territory of how do we actually use light environment and circadian signaling to activate the Pomcey system for our own benefit? How do we take advantage of those peptide hormones to, you know, suppress appetite? If somebody wants to lose weight, that's a fundamental thing that they want to do. Or you know, how do we up regulate metabolic function in order to gain more muscle or lose more body fat, increase quality of sleep and whatnot.

17:56 And so there's just so much that we can touch on on that end. Wow, so how does one go about then? Like maximally stimulating the pomcey system in the most way utilizing sunlight. I think if you #1 you know, you watch sunrise, you do the sunbathing, build that solar callus, which we'll talk about, all of those things that we've discussed are very important because light, I think is the most fundamental and powerful way to stimulate the palm C system. But further to that point, I think that the dark portion of the cycle is important here.

18:27 The palm C system does definitely rely on the, the interrelationship or the duality between light and dark. And then what's interesting, I think a good pack or combination for people is to combine the coal exposure with UV light exposure. I think that's maybe the ultimate way to stick POM C system because cold does have independent effects on it as well. That's so cool. Wow, that's really awesome. And you also mentioned a bit about how sunlight as well can have these, what do you call it, pro metabolic effects?

18:55 So it basically raises our metabolism or it helps us basically burn body fat. Could you get a little bit more into the mechanism of how it actually does this? Yeah. Well, the mechanism is probably something that I still have to study, to be honest. Like it's, it's a very complex relationship. I will say if we look at like if we look at the full spectrum, you know, each wavelength in my opinion does offer benefit from a metabolic standpoint, especially when it comes to losing body fat. So not only do red and infrared actually stimulate increased ATP production through the mitochondria, which have, in my opinion, its own effects on on body fat reduction, but blue light actually is able to shrink adipocytes, so shrink fat cells and it's able to actually increase the rate at which those fat cells burn fat.

19:43 And so when we understand that, I think we can come to a better grasp of how the light and dark cycle really does improve metabolism. But fundamentally metabolism is under circadian control. And so whatever you talk about under that umbrella is, is a game of circadian biology. First, that's that's the foundation. And so whether you talk about the impact that it has on, you know, the, the insulin response, blood sugar response, the relationship between light and insulin and blood sugar, or, you know, leptin sensitivity, leptin signaling, leptin being a master circadian hormone, which basically controls the distribution of fat within the body.

20:22 There's so much to this and you know, I would be lying if I said I understood every aspect of it. I don't think anybody does. Maybe short of cruise. I think cruise probably comes comes close. But yeah, it's it's just so fundamental to metabolism and increasing metabolic rate. I mean, you know so much, that was such a really great breakdown. Thank you so much. And you mentioned how the the blue light specifically it shrinks the adiposide, so that would be blue light from the sun. I assume right that artificial blue light could not do the same effects.

20:49 Exactly. I think that artificial light, if you study its effects not only in the literature but from a first principle circadian perspective, it poses a lot of problems. In my opinion. I think it's the chief cause of why people are experiencing the chronic destruction of their brain, eyes, skin, neurotransmitter pathways, I mean, you name it. I think it's just such a fundamentally destructive input because of the fact that it is isolated blue and it's divorced from the solar spectrum through the advent of technology and artificial lighting.

21:22 And we can go so deep on that, but it's it's just the most destructive force in my opinion. Which actually is more directly accurate in terms of its explanation on increasing skin cancer rates, increasing chronic disease rates through circadian disruption, and all the other effects that come with it? Yeah. So maybe let's get into that a little bit then. Like how does actually blue light on the on a cellular level or a quantum level? How does it actually impact the skin and also the eyes and therefore every other system of the body?

21:52 I think one of the main ways, one of the most foundational ways that people need to understand is that this isolated blue directly destroys mitochondria. We know about the importance of mitochondria and how that essentially dictates systemic function and local function depending on the body part. But more important than one that goes ignored often is the destruction of the non visual photoreceptor system. And so when isolated blue interacts with the eyes or skin, it actually destroys the options both acutely and chronically.

22:24 When you look at how options work, they are fundamentally tied to the vitamin A cycle. So they're tied to vitamin A in the form of retinol, I believe. And when it when isolated blue interacts with these opsins, it actually frees vitamin A from its its covalent bond. And this isolated, you know, retinol free floating retinol within the system is actually highly destructive because it's, it's a toxic aldehyde essentially. And I think that's where we get into the problems with the destruction of the the non visual photoreceptor system at large, which then leads to a cascade of downstream effects like, you know, destruction of eyesight, destruction of the the skin barrier and its function, which can increase the the risk of various manifestations like hyperpigmentation, hypo pigmentation, melasma, skin cancer, degradation of collagen and loss in hyaluronic acid.

23:19 And so that's I think a fundamental thing that people need to understand. It's just this relationship between isolated blue and then the vitamin A cycle in relation to the options. And do you think that basically when you destroy this vitamin A or you, yeah, you release it into the system, are you able to, for example, through diet? I know that this is like very, very simple solution, but I'm sure it's not the solution to the problem. Obviously removing the stressor is the solution always. But for example, does eating liver or high vitamin A foods help anything at all in this situation?

23:52 I mean, I wish I could say yes. You know, I would intuit that it helps to some degree because you're ultimately consuming a a nutrient dense food complex. So I don't see why not to some degree. But again, it's just like you said, you have to remove the source of the isolated blue, which is the real root cause of the issue. And then on the back end of that, you also have to get from sunlight because that's what's going to regenerate the opsin system, especially red and infrared during the morning time.

24:20 I mean look, you have to remove the source that is actually destroying the options and then bring in the source that is actually healing and regenerating them. Yeah, I don't think that people really understand actually how important the eyes are to the entire system. And you just broke it down beautifully for us. And and also the fact that they are the master clocks of the entire body arise where our master clock is located in the brain. And then if that is not able to receive the signals from the light, then it's not able to basically program the rest of the clocks in the body for the rest of the organs, right?

24:55 So everything gets basically thrown out of sync. And as you mentioned at the beginning, everything is running on a circadian mechanism. And when this circadian mechanism is thrown off, that is when disease begins to manifest, right? Exactly. Great point. So the the most simple way that I can get this across to the audience is that you have this, you have the Super cosmatic nucleus in the brain. And so think of that as the master circadian clock. That's like the starting point that light comes in and interacts with the entire body.

25:23 And then from that point, you get the signal to the other peripheral clocks, which are found through every organ cell in the body. And so the starting point is light peripherally or directly into the eyes directly depending on, you know, whether you're sun gazing or not, but more so peripherally. And then that's what really sets this the stage for circadian alignment systemically. And then more importantly, I think the the light onto the skin is also a way that we can really interact with the, the master circadian clock.

25:54 Because you know, if you look at the brain, skin and eyes, they are all part of 1 system. This is what's called neuroactoderm. When you are an embryo in your womb, all three of those systems are made of the same skin fundamentally. And if you look at how embryonic development occurs in the stages through which it occurs, it's just molded into using this, the original skin. So I think that's a very important point. We need to understand that the light that the skin, brain and eyes are one neuroactoderm trio that are light sensing and circadian in nature, which means that ultimately your lifestyle has some very big impacts on the health of those you know that trio.

26:35 Awesome. Yeah, I just did the three-part series with this one guy called Melanin Research on Instagram and we got we dove into a little bit of that as well. And we kind of were talking how the in systems of the body are all cross communicating with each other. So it was super mind blowing. So I highly recommend for people to go and listen to that episode as well. How do you think sunscreen? Do you think that sunscreen is safe? And what's your thoughts on sunscreen in general? So I'm always an advocate of informed consent.

27:04 I think that if you look at how people, you know, if you look at most people these days, they don't get informed consent, which is essentially just describing that they're not given the full scope of the information depending on the subject that we're talking about. So you know, with sunscreen, I think the informed consent perspective is that it is, it might have some use cases and very rare scenarios, but again, there's a whole bunch of things that people aren't being told that are important here.

27:32 So #1 sunscreen fundamentally alters the the solar spectrum, which is problematic when we understand what low emission glass does to the body, especially the skin barrier. And it's problematic from the standpoint that we want the full spectrum in its full synergistic magic as opposed to altered spectrums of light. And so when you consider that most sunscreen blocks UVA and UVB, for sure, a lot of options block infrared these days, which is crazy. Then we get into the territory that we are altering the full spectrum.

28:04 And most importantly, a lot of sunscreens these days aren't touching blue light whatsoever. And so they're leaving the blue light wavelength range completely untouched, which is problematic considering it's a high energy wavelength that actually penetrates the skin. And so I, I think that the real problem here is that if you use any form of sunscreen, even non, even non nano zinc oxide sunscreens, it is fundamentally changing the spectrum overtime. And so with chronic use, that's a very important thing to consider.

28:33 And then of course, you know, we talked about the benefits of UVA and UVB, like why would you want to block those out? You come from a more decentralized standpoint. And outside of that, I think obviously in chemical, chemical based sunscreens contain potentially carcinogenic chemicals. But what people don't consider is as well is that there are also photocarcinogenic chemicals, meaning that the actual compound itself may not be carcinogenic, but when it interacts with high UV and and high heat when you're outside, then it actually activates it to become more carcinogenic, which is problematic.

29:07 So think of oxybenzone, think of avalbenzone. There's a lot of these chemicals that interact with heat to, you know, end up creating a lot more problems. And then that's not even to consider that when you use sunscreen and that sunscreen interacts with the heat of the sun, it creates an environment where you have an excess free radical generation. And so you have this runaway free radical situation where the body is not able to create balance in the system as it naturally should without sunscreen.

29:36 And so that's also an important factor when it comes to the development or manifestation of skin cancers or any sort of skin manifestation that that we want to consider over time. Yeah. And it's wild because people are using the sunscreen because they've been told that actually this is what helps you prevent, you know, skin cancer. Make sure that you put your SPF 50 on in your house, even if you don't go outside. You know, isn't that, like, insane that they actually recommend people to wear the sunscreen?

30:04 And it actually could be even increasing your risk of skin cancer. Why is this information out there? It is, that's why I call all of the the centralized advice essentially iatrogenic advice. Iatrogenesis for people who don't know is, is essentially harm that is caused by the recommendation of a medical professional. And so you know, this can be harm that's caused by intentional advice or you know, just their ignorance. And when you understand that centralized dermatologist example don't understand circadian biology, they're quite literally not hot circadian mechanisms in the circadian foundation within their curriculum by design.

30:42 I think we understand that the, you know, recommendation of sunscreen or sunglasses or sun avoidance is, is damaging to people's health, especially chronically. And I think that there are a lot of holes within the centralized orthodoxy that many people don't consider. And that's why I'm so big on informed consent. Because if you have medical professionals who don't understand that circadian biology is the foundation, do you think you're going to get high quality recommendations or advice on the back end?

31:08 Of course not. And so that's why I think this, this subject is so important to understand because not only is it directionally more accurate according to all the literature out there, but it's also the most fundamental way to protect you and your family from iotrogenic harm, which in 2016 was actually the third leading cause of death in the United States. I think it was upwards of like 400,000 people in the US or maybe even globally died from iotrogenic harm. Wow that's wild. You mentioned about sunglasses as well there.

31:40 What's the problem with wearing sunglasses outside? So there's a lot of problems with it. I think I had a recent post on the relationship between full spectrum sunlight and like neurotransmitter pathways. When you use sunglasses, you're blocking that stimulus peripherally into the eyes and so you're not getting the Hilux, which is light intensity into the system. That in and of itself is very important for circadian activation, melanopsin function and and up regulation. You know you're not getting the full spectrum as it's designed into the ocular system which is essentially designed to receive that input.

32:17 So the mitochondria of the opsins, the melanin in your eyes and in systemically are not functioning as they're they're designed to. You are, I think you mentioned this actually earlier within the notes, but you're essentially increasing your risk of burning if you are out there under high UV index conditions because again, that peripheral full spectrum UV light signal is supposed to activate the melanocyte stimulating hormone family. And that's actually what creates melon, which is protective, which is designed to be activated when high UV index is out.

32:48 And so that's how you increase your risk of burning when you use sunglasses because you're blocking that signal, which then prevents you from creating MSH and then melanin. And then outside of that, I mean, you're talking about the you're talking about an intervention that quite literally creates light sensitivity in the system. And so people think that they are, they're light sensitive because of, you know, some genetic issue or just inherent inherently some problem exists. But I would argue that people are have sensitive eyes because they're actually using sunglasses chronically.

33:19 And so when you understand the relationship between loopsin and dopamine production in the eye and how those are responsible for photo adaptation or adaptation to different light levels in the environment based off of bright light exposure, then we can understand that the system is designed to get bright light. And if you are experiencing light sensitivity that's assigned to me, you're either chronically using sunglasses, your circadian disrupted chronically to some degree, and you spend too much time indoors and you don't get enough full spectrum sunlight.

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34:25 The more electrons we can get through successfully along the electron transport chain in the mitochondria, the more deuterium depleted water we can make, as well as the end of energy production, which is ATP. The energy that we need to power all our cellular processes come from electrons. So it only makes sense the more we take care about mitochondria and our energy production, more energy we have for our overall health, well-being and vitality. If you wish to explore the methylene blue that I use, head over to maragimedicinal.com/mobility Fitness and use the promo code Mobility Fitness at checkout for 15% of your entire order.

35:00 Yeah. So I now people will be feeling like, OK, they hear all of this and they're, they're now motivated to take their sunglasses off. But as you mentioned that they're probably going to be extremely light sensitive. So then they're going to feel like, you know, that they're going to want to put them back on. So what can they actually do in order to build their tolerance back up? Number one, I think watching sunrise is very important for this process. If you look through everything that we recommend, watching sunrise is going to be a universal and it's going to apply to everybody.

35:28 Outside of that, I would say get as much AM sunbathing and AM sunlight peripherally into the eyes as possible because of course there's no UV and so there's less likelihood of being sensitive to that light. Now you know, when you put that foundation into place, I think it's very important to micro dose UV exposure when UV is out. And so if you have to start with two minutes of exposure before you experience some sort of side effect, sure, focus on that, do it consistently and then progressively build up in the same way that you would build a tan.

35:59 What's important to consider is that you know this, the interaction between bright light and melanopsin and dopamine production in the eye is directly tied into the manifestation of headaches or light sensitivity. And so the reason why a lot of people experience headaches is because there's a direct connection to the I believe it's called the trigeminal nerve and it's it's ability to actually stimulate a headache. So that's another reason why I want people to progressively get into this because a lot of people do actually describe very serious migraines and headaches when they just step outside without this preparation in in preparatory framework.

36:36 And then outside of them, I think, yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I think what I was going to mention is that darkness at night is very important to this process because that's what that what's actually going to create circadian alignment and regenerate the ocular system. And then outside of that, just trying to not use sunglasses as much as possible is really key. Awesome. And yes, I was going to say about my personal experience as well that I noticed if by accident, I oversleep and I, I don't get, you know, in time for the sunrise outside, I notice like a clear impact on my eyes that it's so much more hard to to keep my eyes open for the rest of the day, especially in the midday sun.

37:13 But because I do get outside every single day and I do see the sunrise, it does get better like over time as I spend time outdoors. But at the same time, I notice a clear difference when I've actually watched the sunrise. I think that people need to understand that the light and the LAX intensity is so low at the sunrise time that it's just so easy to keep your eyes open. It's almost as if like it's a cloudy day basically in the in the AM and especially if you actually can't see the sun and rising from wherever you live.

37:42 And then you know, as it goes higher and higher, your eyes are able to adapt basically to the increase in light intensity. Where and whereas if people are indoors and then they all of a sudden go and blast themselves with midday sun and they haven't been outside the entire morning. Well, obviously you're going to be light sensitive, right? Because it makes total sense that you have this massive amount of light intensity. And you may also mention that this light intensity is also so crucial to the circadian mechanism that that is actually one of the things that actually tells our brain that, hey, this is daytime right now.

38:15 It's not only just the presence of blue light, but it's also the light intensity. And even after dark, we don't want to have intense lights even in the house, even if they don't contain, you know, blue light, right? Because the light intensity is so important. Exactly. And so, you know, when we talk about brighter days outside in darker nights with minimal circadian friendly lighting, all we're talking about is the, the DARPA distinction, the difference between, you know, Hilux and Lolux. I think that's a very fundamental part of it.

38:44 Of course, there's so much more to it, but I, I think the, the light intensity is something that many people don't consider because it is, you know, Hilux is very important for dopamine generation in the eye, melanopsin activation, which then cascades into so many different things. And so people need to think about the duality. The problem is, you know, in, in most, in this day and age, most people have the duality flipped the other way, which is very, very bad. They have very dangerous phase because inside, in their, in their inside.

39:14 And then they have bright nights because of artificial light. And so that that is the ultimate way to create systemic chaos in the body, especially over time. And it's it is quite literally the foundation upon which chronic disease is created. You mentioned previously about how the glass can alter the light spectrum. There is this one famous picture online of this truck driver who has one side of his face is totally looks totally aged and the other side of his face not. And then people basically say that, see, sunlight basically causes photo aging.

39:47 It causes, yeah, aging. What do you call it, damage or whatever? And so basically, what would you say to that? I would say that the dermatologists and centralized practitioners have that completely wrong because they didn't consider the low emission glass and so they blame the sun. But in reality, if you actually watch how most truck drivers drive on the road, you know, almost all the time I see their windows actually up. And so that's problematic when you consider the point that, you know, full spectrum sunlight that is filtered through low emission glass ceases to become healthy.

40:17 It actually becomes a damaging spectrum of light. As it mostly blocks UVB, it dramatically reduces red and infrared which are the balancing forces in my mind to blue and UV, and it basically focuses UVA and blue light which are high energy wavelengths in isolation together. And so it's quite literally the recipe to create photo damage in skin cancer over time, which is why you see such a sharp distinction in in appearance in in his face. You know, one part of his face that is exposed to that filtered spectrum is completely damaged, you know, accelerated photo damage and in lack of of collagen elastin or the destruction of those things is readily apparent for everyone to see.

40:59 Yet on the other side of his face, which is not exposed to that altered spectrum directly over time, is completely fine, relatively speaking. I mean, obviously he's an older age and so there's going to be some aging that comes with with that, but you can see the difference clearly. Yeah, exactly. So then it would be really good for people then to be aware about this topic that most modern glass these days, it's almost unavoidable, right? It's basically blocking, as you mentioned, the the beneficial red and infrared and also the UVB.

41:27 And it's, you're not getting that balanced spectrum. And so when you're altering the spectrum like you do with sunscreen, well, you you run into some problems for sure. And so I think it would be really great if people started to become more aware about this and they started, you know, maybe lowering their window a little bit to allow full spectrum light. People do actually realize how light is so nonlinear. They think that if direct light is not hitting them, that they're not getting the benefit.

41:54 Maybe you could explain that a little bit for people because they have a hard time that even, for example, if you're sitting in the shade, you're also getting the benefits of light even if you're in the shade. Exactly. People don't consider that light wavelengths are, you know, I mean, photons are very interesting, but they have some very unique properties. So number one, they can act as both like a particle in a wave, which is is crazy to think about. I think that was proven through the double slit experiment in like the 50s or 60s.

42:21 But there are some very real quantum effects when it comes to photons and how they interact with us in the environment. And so I think one example of this is just the fact that photons can actually bounce within the environment. And so This is why we tell people to lower the window, even if a little bit, because the the light will actually scatter within the intern within the indoor environment to where you have a more beneficial spectrum indoors. And so This is why we tell people to open the windows inside or if you're in the car, open the window halfway or fully if if you can, the more the better.

42:52 But you know, also we have to consider that if you are in a natural environment outside under greenery, the the plants will actually reflect near infrared light by the mere nature that they absorb other parts of the spectrum and they reflect that near infrared light for our own benefit. And so if you're under a tree in shade or just outside in shade anywhere, then you're going to get some massive benefits from near infrared light scattering within the environment around you. You know that that might also be a part of the reason why people have these epiphanies under trees and and within parks and what not.

43:30 But I think that that's an important consideration. Outside of that, I think another thing that I wanted to mention is that we have to understand systems thinking. Many people don't consider systems thinking. So the skin barrier is a circadian system. The the full spectrum from the sun is a system as well. And So what we have to understand with systems thinking is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Meaning that even though we focus on these isolated wavelengths and their benefits, what we don't consider is that when you combine these wavelengths within the, the solar spectrum, especially to the barrier of the skin, the, you know, the, the synergistic, synergistic effect is so much greater than any of the isolated benefits that we can study scientifically.

44:11 And so that's a very important point that I want to get across to people. 100% and something important you said there earlier about the indoor environment and opening the windows, a lot of biohackers and people you know are trying to biohack their homes and they are buying these full spectrum circadian healthy light bulbs. So but nothing will ever beat getting full spectrum light in your house, right With an open window. I mean, that's a light bulb. We'll never be able to replace full spectrum light.

44:38 And of course it's understandable that if you are indoors, you are going to want to get that light intensity that locks if you have to be indoors. But even just by simply opening the windows and you use a lux meter, you can see what a massive difference it actually makes just by simply opening the window in terms of the the brightness that comes in. Nevermind the spectrum that also changes. Oh yeah, That's why, you know, when I am inside and I'm not outside, I usually cycle a lot. So like, I cycle between the outdoors and indoors quite a bit.

45:08 What I am inside I will often, I mean literally like 50 times a day, I'll go up to an open window and I'll just like stand there for a minute. And that I think makes a huge difference from a circadian signaling standpoint. And in terms of indoor lighting, I think the closest thing you can get to full spectrum sunlight is the incandescence. But again, there's just no replacement for the sun from many different angles, whether it's the lux, the full spectrum, the independent benefits of the wavelengths and the synergistic benefits.

45:36 And so, yeah, that's definitely an important point. Is there any type of foods that actually increase skin cancer risk and are there any foods which are protective against skin cancer? Yeah, you know, I'm willing to bet that all nutrient dense food from the earth that's organic and you know, free of pesticides and rodenticides and whatnot is actually protective against all forms of cancer and all forms of chronic disease. Because if you just look at, you know, you understand that this is a nutrient dense food complex that is offering me vitamins, minerals, cofactors, that is quite literally protective of the body and creates balance in the body.

46:10 Then I have no problem saying that all nutrient dense food, real food essentially is protective against all forms of chronic disease. Now, when we get into the quote UN quote foods that increase your risk of development chronic disease, then obviously the, the 1st place we we go to is the the oxidized Omega 6 oils. I think you know, canola oil, rapeseed, safflower, sunflower, all of those oils are already oxidized before you consume consume them, which is problematic. They, they increase excess free radical generation within the body.

46:42 But you know, we also have to consider that the fat in our body is quite literally made from the fat we consume dietary wise. And so you don't want to be consuming these oxidized, highly inflammatory oils that are high in Omega 6 as opposed to omega-3 because they will create a more susceptible skin barrier. They will destroy the mitochondria within the skin and they'll just create systemic chaos and increase chronic inflammation, which is just not a good recipe if we're talking about skin cancer and and protecting the skin.

47:11 And so that's something that I think is AI think any processed food quote, UN quote is you know, going to increase your risk definitely over time. And how about DHA rich foods for example from fish? Like does that also enhance the sunlight exposure that we get? I think it does because if you look at DHAI mean again, it's kind of like the Palm sea system in the fact that it's been around for hundreds of millions of years. And so without DHA, you essentially don't have the ability to become human.

47:39 So that's it's very unique to us, especially when it comes to DHA content in the brain. And so you want to consume wild caught seafood or at least nutrient dense sources of DHA and EPA as well. The the balance is very important, but DHA is interesting because it's almost like an energy transducer. So it'll take, in my opinion, it'll take electromagnetic radiation from the sun and actually transduce or transform that energy into usable energy in the body. It's kind of similar to melanin in that way in terms of its ability to, to transfer energy to, to be usable in the body.

48:16 And so yeah, super important, you know, eat your wild caught sardines, eat your wild caught salmon, oysters, krill, all that stuff is just absolute powerhouse for the the body and brain. If there was 1 substance that could increase your energy levels, optimize mitochondrial function, boost ATP production, help to optimize your hormones, re mineralize the body with ionic minerals, boost cognitive function, assist detoxification and support your gut health via the microbiome. This substance is Shilajit.

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49:06 They have an extremely high quality shilajit product that has been rigorously tested for heavy metals and impurities. Grab yourself some Shilajit, the destroyer of weakness, today and head over to mountaindrop.com. Use the promo code Mobility FITNESS at checkout for a nice discount as well. Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, I definitely noticed myself that if I'm eating a lot of seafood and I spend more time outdoors, I get super tanned compared to when I don't. I don't really enjoy to eat seafood that much actually.

49:32 But for example, when I do, I really mega dose. But then when I do that, I'm also eating it outside. And I just noticed that, you know, I tanned so much more that specific day. It has such a fast turnover. Do you think that like that's possible? Yeah, for sure, because I think you're just creating more resilience and robustness in the system. And you know, I think we have to understand that DHA is also a circadian molecule. And so it interacts with light in very incredible ways. And I think it just gives you a better ability to handle full spectrum sunlight, especially higher UV which which then has so many downstream effects on the body.

50:10 Awesome, awesome. I think now would be a really great time to get into different practical tools and tips and habits that we can give people to be able to now get into the sun safely and do it without burning. So I think it would be appropriate to talk about what is a solar colors in the 1st place and how would one go about building. One, so solar callus is essentially just a tan. That's all it is. It's melanin production and it is bribing more so the the the process of developing a nice healthy tan, which then is not only protective against radio, you know, radiation from the sun.

50:47 U melanin blocks 99% of all UV Theo melanin and lighter skinned people is like 30 to 40% protective. But it goes so much more beyond that. If you look at the benefits of melanin, you know, like you had with the other person on that previous episode, again, it's it's anti-inflammatory antioxidant. It's found almost everywhere in the body. It is anti venom. It's responsible for free electron generation. It's a heavy metal detoxifier. It's just so important across the board, which is why we want to actually build a tan.

51:19 So if you look at the the dermatologists and centralized orthodoxy, they will actually tell you that melanin is a sign of DNA damage. But again, that's a reductive notion that I think misses so many things within the circadian space when in fact we want to build a tan properly. And so the Solar Callus guide is an article I wrote on my sub stack that explains it. But you want to start out with the morning time. You want to sunbathe in the morning when there's no UE. You want to do that as much and as often as you can to prime the skin through various means.

51:50 I mean, red and infrared will create that collagen, elastin, hyaluronic acid within the skin. You know, the the morning spectrum will actually stimulate. Is it filigrin? Yeah, Filigrin uricanic acid, which are moisturizing and protective against burns and whatnot. And most importantly, it'll essentially prime the skin for the upcoming UV and the earlier or later part of the morning and during the midday. And so from that standpoint, you sunbathe in the morning, you might produce UV. In my opinion, this will depend on the individual.

52:22 If you're a redhead, you have to be very intentional about the process and in do it for a lot less time. If you're darker skinned, you have more leverage to do it a longer time. And then from, from that end, it's, it's about consistency, it's about repeating the process. And then you want to make it dark after sunset because the skin regenerates at night. And again, you want to avoid those altered spectrums, which means avoiding filtered sunlight through glass onto the skin, avoiding sunscreen, sunglasses, and any of that stuff that creates problematic effects.

52:53 And so that's, that's all it comes down to. It's just you have to work the process and you have to be consistent with it, most importantly. Yeah, I think that the issue comes when people binge tan, right, When they basically don't get in the sun the entire year. And then they go on holiday somewhere to the tropics and they get in this very high UV environment and then they basically burn. And then they blame the sun for, you know, manifestation of different problems when in reality, if you get it in very small all doses in you build up your tolerance to it.

53:23 It actually can be protective as you mentioned. But when people are binge tanning, do you think that this is problematic for skin cancer risk? There is, there does seem to be a stronger link between intermittent sun exposure, which is what you're describing, and the the risk of developing skin cancer. But again, I think that's still that's still on a shaky foundation because people would think that burns cause skin cancer. I mean, the literature doesn't really show that. Literature actually shows that, for example, you know, burns are actually associated with lower death from Melanoma.

53:58 So, you know, how do we square that away from the centralized perspective? Because people are always saying that sunburns cause skin cancer risk. But even like the stats that, for example, they'll say that, you know, getting a burden early in life increases your risk of developing skin cancer by something like 400%. That's all built off of observational and associational data. And so there, in my opinion, there actually is no study that proves in the literature that sunlight, full spectrum sunlight causes skin cancer within a human being.

54:28 Because again, there are so many holes within the, the study design of centralized medicine that there's just none of that exists. And so I, I think we still want to avoid burns because it's a sign that we've overextended ourselves according to our level of adaptation. But there's a lot of new the Burn discussion. Yeah. And, and I think that people need to think about it like going to the gym, right? You need to slowly progress. You wouldn't go and pick up 500 kilos the first time you go to the gym.

54:58 You need to slowly build up your tolerance to the sun to be able to tolerate the sun more. I had one thing in mind and I literally, I lost my train of thought. I'm sure it will come back to me. So what do you think is well about when people have had enough sunlight? Would you rather them, you know, go indoors or would you rather them like sit in the shade and maybe cover themselves with with something like a shirt or a hat or something? You know, either or. I'm a big fan of, like I said, cycling the at least when it's high UV index, when it's summer and it can get very hot, I like to go outdoors for, for a period of time and then I like to go indoors and then I kind of cycle between those two options.

55:39 And then, you know, intuitively, I think that when you are in circadian alignment, your body will tell you that it's time to just stop sunbathing. And so it might become a little bit and comfortable, you might get a little bit more hot than usual. And so that's the signal to either put on some clothes and put on a hat and get into shade or just go inside all together. And so that's why usually I recommend the avoidance of sunscreen because sunscreen interrupts that process altogether. And, and again, it creates this hydrogenic, yeah, it creates hydrogenic consequences which we want to avoid.

56:13 But fundamentally, your body has everything it needs to in order to avoid burns and get the most out of this work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, now it came back to me, the thought which I had earlier was that basically what you talked about the burns being, you know, not actually being a skin cancer risk. Well, it's it's like the same thing as saying that, you know, working out too hard and breaking down too much muscle can potentially cause skin cancer I or, or muscle cancer, for example, isn't it?

56:42 Isn't it a little bit like the same line of thinking what? What do you think about? That I do because it's, you know, do we have the same energy for, you know, when you pull a muscle? If you're somebody who actually like, let's say a hamstring and you go through the proper process of recovery to actually rehabilitate that hamstring, does that mean you're at an increased likelihood of tearing your hamstring again like five years later? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more to the discussion, which is which resides in the preparation and the recovery of that sort of manifestation.

57:15 And so I think it's even more ridiculous to say that a burn increases your risk of skin cancer when you consider that regeneration happens at night and that the the entire skin barrier actually goes through cell turnover about every 30 days. And so you're literally, you use skin barrier every 30 days, whether it comes from the the dermis, the epidermis, hypodermis, all of the skin cells are being regenerated every month or so. And so it's kind of dumb to think that a burn when you're 5 years old somehow translates into skin cancer risk when you're 50 years old.

57:50 It just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely wild. And as you said, it's it's this, we're a system, right? We can't separate the parts. So for example, our circadian alignment and biology is tying all into this. And the the night time, the darkness at night is so crucial. I don't think we can overemphasize this enough. So making sure that you're getting rid of the artificial blue light after sunset, especially in your eyes, but of course your skin is also affected as well by light, right?

58:18 As we mentioned, our skin also has photoreceptors. So we must just make sure that we are eliminating all sources of artificial blue light in our home. Ideally, we want to have maybe a red light bulbs, maybe incandescent light bulbs and we have want to have low locks in the home, so low light intensity. So we are mimicking basically sunset for as long as possible until we go to bed because our eye is not supposed to see anything other than that once it becomes dark, right? That's basically the reason why we have light is to be able to operate at times when we actually shouldn't be operating.

58:51 But in reality, if we live in alignment with nature, we're supposed to be getting really, really tired. Like maybe one hour after, you know, the sun has set, it's getting completely dark and we're going to bed. And we're actually having an easier time to also wake up in the morning to, you know, get out with the sun rising and have that healthy, you know, light and day cycle. And This is why it's so important because that's when your body is actually able to regenerate and come back stronger. But if you're, you know, if you're missing out on that darkness and you're missing out on that cellular melatonin during the daytime, how do you expect that your skin is going to repair?

59:26 You can't blame the sun, which is basically the giver of life to everything on this planet for, for your habits and behaviors. So is there anything that that we didn't cover that you would like to leave the audience with before we end our episode? Yeah, that was a fantastic breakdown of it. I really appreciate that because it also sparked a thought in my mind. It's, you know, when we talk about hormesis, we have to understand that hormesis is basically the process through which you get stronger, but you have to really approach it properly.

59:54 There's a duality between stress and recovery and it's really in that balance that you're able to create you stress which which creates more robust health. And so if you are somebody who gets very high intensity UV and you sunbathe a lot, but you're not making your your nights dark, that I think can be problematic because it breaks apart that circadian alignment and it creates chronic circadian disruption, which leaves room for let's say increased damage or the increased likelihood that you are going to experience some sort of negative side effect.

1:00:27 And so you know if you. To talk about the training perspective, what do you think is going to happen if you start going maximal sprints, maximal 200 LB back squats? Meanwhile, you're on like 2 hours of sleep. Eventually you're going to break down. And that's kind of the same line of thinking that I think about when it comes to sunlight exposure and darkness at night. And so it's very important to understand that every process in the body is built upon that hormetic balance. And if you either don't get enough sun or it's too, too bright at night, you break apart that balance.

1:01:00 And also one other thing that I need to mention that people don't understand is that every anti cancer defense in your body is under circadian control. So autophagy, apoptosis, P53 is a tumor suppressor gene. All of these things are under circadian control, which means that sunlight cannot inherently cause any form of cancer. It's actually protective against it. Wow, that was awesome. Let's end it there, brother. That was absolutely fantastic. Where can people find you, reach out to you, and work with you if they wish to do so?

1:01:28 Yeah, so ZK dahaj ZAIDKDAHAJ, my website handle is that X Instagram sub stack. It's the same handle across the board. And so then you just get in touch with me through there. I'm sure you'll have the links, but yeah, there's a lot of content to go through. Awesome brother, thank you so much for this discussion. It was absolutely mind blowing and it's so, so important to spread this message with the world because there is just so much misinformation out there. And, you know, as I mentioned at the very beginning of the podcast, you are one of the foremost experts on the subject of circadian biology.

1:02:02 You put out so, so much incredible free content out there for people. So I think you're doing, sorry, my microphone just dropped. You're doing a great service to the world. And yeah, I would love to do it again in the future. I believe that there are so many more topics that we can tap into for sure. And let's do it again really soon. Absolutely brother. Thank you for an awesome. Discussion you guys enjoy the topics and guests I bring on the show. I would really appreciate it if you left me a five star review on Spotify and also subscribe to Fitness Wisdom podcast on YouTube as well as this helps to spread the knowledge and wisdom with the world.

1:02:35 Until next time, this is the Fitness Wisdom Podcast.